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Re: PROV-ISSUE-370 (tracedTo-inference-only): Should tracedTo be moved to prov-constraints and be defined as a binary relation that can be inferred [prov-dm]

From: James Cheney <jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:48:45 +0100
Cc: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <AF87C9E3-571B-43ED-9741-3DDA85FBD235@inf.ed.ac.uk>
To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
The potential problem with this is that such an assertion could correspond to many different actual situations.  So, if I send you a PROV instance that says

tracedTo(foo,bar,[confidence=0.5])

and nothing else, what does this mean?  Is it legal to just say tracedTo on its own?  What constraints or inferences apply?

This seems to be a way of expressing metadata/beliefs about provenance data, rather than expressing the data itself.  One could do this as an overlay on PROV without requiring everyone that uses PROV to support it, I think.

--James

On Apr 30, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Paul Groth wrote:

> My concrete use case would be to put things like confidence values on
> these links. For example, in one of our systems we "guess" if there is
> a tracedto and what to put some confidence value on that link. This is
> one of the reasons I like attributes in the model.
> 
> We could do this with derivation so it's not a big deal but the nice
> thing is that traced to is transitive...
> 
> cheers
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> 
>> Do you have a concrete use case, in particular, with attributes?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Luc
>> 
>> On 04/30/2012 12:17 PM, Paul Groth wrote:
>>> I think traced-to is useful to sometime assert especially in the case
>>> where you want to be very vague about provenance. It's also nice to
>>> have attributes so that you can associate other sorts of information
>>> with it.
>>> 
>>> However, if others think it's nicer to be inference only then I won't
>>> be stand in the way.
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Provenance Working Group Issue
>>> Tracker<sysbot+tracker@w3.org>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> PROV-ISSUE-370 (tracedTo-inference-only): Should tracedTo be moved to prov-constraints and be defined as a binary relation that can be inferred [prov-dm]
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/370
>>>> 
>>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>> On product: prov-dm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> TracedTo was introduced in the data model so as to have a transitive relation over derivations, etc. It can be inferred. In contrast, its definition as an assertion was not very compelling. In the latest version of prov-constraints, it is only defined as something that can be inferred.
>>>> 
>>>> Really, it looks like a relation that is useful to express queries.
>>>> 
>>>> So, in the spirit of simplification, should we move it out of prov-dm, and have it defined in prov-constraints only.
>>>> 
>>>> At the same time, it could be simplified to a binary relation, since we have no way of inferring attributes for this relation.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
> Assistant Professor
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
> Artificial Intelligence Section
> Department of Computer Science
> VU University Amsterdam
> 
> 


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Received on Monday, 30 April 2012 11:49:12 GMT

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