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Re: PROV-ISSUE-223 (definition-of-entity): What is the definition of entity [prov-dm]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 13:44:14 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|b917aadce9e057d529cbb92f04f2c006o32DiH08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4F7AF09E.6050605@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi Simon,
Yes, it's a better definition that addresses my concern.
Luc

On 04/03/2012 09:32 AM, Miles, Simon wrote:
> First, I think that we define entity in contrast to activity, so 
> people will only get what we're intending once they've read both 
> definitions. I don't think this is a problem, but means each 
> definition will necessarily be somewhat incomplete by itself.
> I propose:
> "An entity is a physical, digital, conceptual, or other kind of thing; 
> things may be real or imaginary."
> Thanks,
> Simon
> Dr Simon Miles
> Senior Lecturer, Department of Informatics
> Kings College London, WC2R 2LS, UK
> +44 (0)20 7848 1166
> Requirements for Provenance on the Web:
> http://eprints.dcs.kcl.ac.uk/1399/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Paul Groth [p.t.groth@vu.nl]
> *Sent:* 03 April 2012 06:37
> *To:* Luc Moreau
> *Cc:* Jim McCusker; public-prov-wg@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: PROV-ISSUE-223 (definition-of-entity): What is the 
> definition of entity [prov-dm]
>
> Hi Luc
>
> I think the definition is fine. If anything the first sentence should 
> be dropped.
>
> The fact that we can lookup the provenance of other things is beside 
> the point...
>
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 0:03, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk 
> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> I don't think that's what we want.
>> prov:Entity is essentially a continuent, whereas prov:activity is an 
>> occurrent.
>>
>> What's a simpler way of defining prov:entity?
>>
>> Luc
>>
>> On 02/04/12 22:57, Jim McCusker wrote:
>>> For what it's worth, this would align with the Basic Formal Ontology 
>>> definition of Entity:
>>>
>>> Entity is a Continuent or Occurrent.
>>>
>>> Continuent: An entity [bfo:Entity] that exists in full at any time 
>>> in which it exists at all, persists through time while maintaining 
>>> its identity and has no temporal parts.
>>>
>>> Occurrent: An entity [bfo:Entity] that has temporal parts and that 
>>> happens, unfolds or develops through time. Sometimes also called 
>>> perdurants.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk 
>>> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     All,
>>>
>>>     We are now defining entity as follows:
>>>
>>>     /An entity is a thing one wants to provide provenance for. For
>>>     the purpose of this specification, things can be physical,
>>>     digital, conceptual, or otherwise; things may be real or imaginary./
>>>
>>>     Unfortunately, we also provide provenance for activities, etc.
>>>     Last week, we agreed we could query the provenance of anything
>>>     that was identifiable.
>>>
>>>     So, the definition of entity is too broad.
>>>     How should it be revised?  Can reviewers think about it?
>>>
>>>     Regards,
>>>     Luc
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 19/01/12 09:15, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>>>     PROV-ISSUE-223 (definition-of-entity): What is the definition of entity [prov-dm]
>>>>
>>>>     http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/223
>>>>
>>>>     Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>>     On product: prov-dm
>>>>
>>>>     The prov-dm documents has some form of definition for entity [1] and entity record [2] (likewise, activity [5] and activity record [6]).
>>>>
>>>>     Recent discussions indicate that the definitions are not rigorous enough, and subject to too much interpretation.
>>>>
>>>>     Indications that an entity can potentially characterize multiple things [3], or that an entity is a class definition [4] are examples of the breadth of interpretation.
>>>>
>>>>     The WG should aim to refine these definitions.
>>>>
>>>>     [1]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#concept-entity
>>>>     [2]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#record-Entity
>>>>     [3]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Jan/0213.html
>>>>     [4]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Jan/0219.html
>>>>     [5]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#concept-activity
>>>>     [6]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#record-Activity
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Jim McCusker
>>> Programmer Analyst
>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>>> Yale School of Medicine
>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu <mailto:james.mccusker@yale.edu> | (203) 
>>> 785-6330
>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>>
>>> PhD Student
>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu <mailto:mccusj@cs.rpi.edu>
>>> http://tw.rpi.edu

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Tuesday, 3 April 2012 12:44:47 GMT

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