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Re: PROV-ISSUE-29 (mutual-iVP-of): can two bobs be mutually "IVP of" each other [Conceptual Model]

From: Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu>
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:32:45 -0400
Message-ID: <CAAtgn=Rg1U98zmiiFeSHL1gWn+Y063n7ga1LWopnyaBRs+vbqA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>, ProvenanceWorking Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Why are we bringing time into it? What's the objection to using
specialization as its basis?

Jim

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

>  Dear all,
>
>  To align prov-dm with the semantics, I am suggesting to use the
> following definition
>
>  *Two entities are alternates if they refer to the same thing at
> overlapping times, *
>
>
> instead of the one referring to specialisation.  Objection?
>
>
>
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science
> University of Southampton
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
> United Kingdom
>
> On 24 Mar 2012, at 21:06, "Jim McCusker" <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote:
>
>   Refer is fine, but there may be people in the semantics community who
> will be more picky. Refer also has a specific meaning in HTTP. If others
> think that denote is too technical, we can try refer or represent and see
> what feedback we get from the community.
>
>  Jim
>
> On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>
>>  What about using using "refer" ?
>>
>>  But I'm fine with denote if that's the best word.
>>
>>  Cheers
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>  Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Mar 24, 2012, at 13:49, Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote:
>>
>>    The intent is that alternative of is defined in terms of
>> specialization. Using examples may clear up any confusion.
>>
>>  The use of denote is taken from the RDF spec. We need something to
>> distinguish between the symbols and the things themselves here, since we
>> are saying that two symbols stand for the same common thing. "denote" is
>> the best technical word, but maybe we need a less technical explanation
>> after the definition.
>>
>>  Jim
>>
>>  On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 2:41 AM, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi
>>> I'm worried that using specialization in the definition of alternate. It
>>> might confuse people or is the intent that alternate is built on
>>> specialization?
>>>
>>>  Also the use of denote doesn't seem to have that common sense ease
>>> that the other definitions have.
>>>
>>>  Any thoughts?
>>>
>>>  Thanks
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 24, 2012, at 2:19, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Jim McCusker wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2012 6:32 PM, "Stian Soiland-Reyes" <
>>> soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 16:44, Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu> wrote:
>>> >
>>>
>>>   > .. not sure if we should include "roles" here as it would be
>>> confusing
>>> > with prov:hadRole (the old EntityInRole discussion).
>>>
>>> My intention is to use this to provide roles to entities within a
>>> particular context. We could leave this out, if it's too confusing.
>>>
>>>
>>>  I'd suggest dropping this from the definition and just using it in
>>> your application.
>>>
>>>  > The current example of Bob with Facebook account is not very good.
>>> Why
>>> > would bobWithFacebook be an alternative of bobWithTwitter? Just
>>> > because they share bob as a parent specialization? Why would you form
>>> > such entities?
>>>
>>>
>>>  Because Bob exhibits different sets of behaviors in each of these
>>> environments.
>>>  He might be more casual on Facebook, but maintain a professional
>>> demeanor on Twitter. You're getting to know "two different people" (two
>>> altOf), even if they are the same person (the common specOf)
>>>
>>>  Even if you know the Bob behind Facebook, you may not know the Bob
>>> behind Twitter.
>>>
>>>  BTW, I added an example that uses alt and spec for real.
>>>  http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Eg-19-derived-named-graph-attribution
>>>
>>>  JimAtYale and JimAtRPI being specializations of JimMcCusker (in
>>> general) are better examples, probably.
>>>
>>> > The BBC News home page today is a specialization of the BBC home page.
>>> > That could be a good one.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The BBC news home page today is a specialization of the BBC news page
>>> > in general. BBC does not provide a URI for a given day's news page, so
>>> > we mint our own:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > specializationOf(bbcNews2012-03-23, <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/>)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The mobile news page is an alternative of the desktop news page. They
>>> > are both specialization of (here unspecified) entity.
>>> >
>>> > alternativeOf(<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/>, <
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/>)
>>>
>>> This is a perfect example.
>>>
>>>
>>>  +10000
>>>
>>>  -Tim
>>>
>>>  > The mobile news page of today is a specialization of the mobile news
>>> page:
>>> >
>>> > specializationOf(bbcNewsMobile2012-03-23, <
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/>)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > This implies (as /news/mobile and /news/ have a common specialization):
>>> >
>>> > alternativeOf(bbcNews2012-03-23, bbcNewsMobile2012-03-23)
>>>
>>> Yes, this all correctly follows.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> Jim McCusker
>> Programmer Analyst
>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>> Yale School of Medicine
>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>
>> PhD Student
>> Tetherless World Constellation
>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>>
>>
>
>
>  --
> Jim McCusker
> Programmer Analyst
> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
> Yale School of Medicine
> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>
> PhD Student
> Tetherless World Constellation
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
> http://tw.rpi.edu
>
>


-- 
Jim McCusker
Programmer Analyst
Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
Yale School of Medicine
james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu

PhD Student
Tetherless World Constellation
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
http://tw.rpi.edu
Received on Monday, 2 April 2012 17:33:44 GMT

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