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Re: Some thoughts about the revised provenance Model document

From: Graham Klyne <Graham.Klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:27:21 +0100
Message-ID: <4EA021B9.4010507@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
To: Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>
CC: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, "Myers, Jim" <MYERSJ4@rpi.edu>, W3C provenance WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>, "Luc Moreau (L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk)" <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
On 20/10/2011 13:55, Stian Soiland-Reyes wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 10:37, Paul Groth<p.t.groth@vu.nl>  wrote:
>
>> cf:e2 a prov:Entity.
>> cf:e2 cf:hasLocation dbpedia:Berlin.
>> dbpedia:Berlin dbpedia-owl:leader dbpedia:Klaus_Wowereit.
>> dbpedia:Klaus_Wowereit dbpprop:nationality dbpedia:Germany.
>>
>> Obviously, I can just keep building this massive graph using linked data.
>> If that's the case what characterizes cf:e2?
>> Is it just cf:hasLocation dbpedia:Berlin or is it everything else?
>
> IMO:
>
> Only
>     cf:e2 cf:hasLocation dbpedia:Berlin .
>
> would be characterizing cf:e2.

+1

> dbpedia:Berlin is not characterized - unless it was also a prov:Entity.
>
>
> Now I don't know the answer for anonymous nodes:
>
> cf:e2 a prov:Entity.
> cf:e2 cf:hasLocation [
>     dbpedia-owl:leader [
>        foaf:name "Klaus Wowereit"
>        dbpprop:nationality dbpedia:Germany
>      ],
> ]
>
>
> My simple reading of this is that cf:e2 has a location of somewhere
> where the German called Klaus Wowereit is "the leader" - but neither
> Hr B├╝rgermeister Wowereit or the implied Berlin is a "characterising
> attribute".
>
> If we distance ourselves slightly from the notions of "characterising
> attributes" we can just say that the properties stated directly on (or
> with?) an entity was true/fixed attributes throughout the lifetime of
> the entity. Any nested propertioes might or might not have been true/
> throughout that lifetime.  (Thus cf:e2 could have existed in Berlin
> before Hr Wowereit became the mayor).

That works for me.

#g
--

> I suggest that if you also want to lock down such things, then do
> those properties as other prov:Entities, (either anonymous or named):
>
> cf:e2 a prov:Entity ;
>    cf:hasLocation cf:berlinWithKlaus .
>
> cf:berlinWithKlaus a prov:Entity, prov:Location ;
>    prov:wasComplementOf  dbpedia:Berlin ;
>    dbpedia-owl:leader cf:klausTheMayor .
>
> cf:klausTheMayor a prov:Entity ;
>      prov:wasComplementOf dbpedia:Klaus_Wowereit ;
>      dbpedia:Klaus_Wowereit dbpprop:nationality dbpedia:Germany .
>
>
> Thus throughout the lifetime of cf:e2, the thing described by e2 was
> in Berlin, and throughout that time (at least as long as e2 existed)
> Klaus Wowereit was the leader, being German (The pre-1990
> Klaus-the-West-German was not the leader during the lifetime of
> cf:berlinWithKlaus).
>
>
> Note that such an interpretation would introduce temporal dependencies
> between cf:e2 and cf:klausTheMayor which are not currently covered by
> PROV-DM (there are no prov:derivedFrom or wasComplementOf links
> between cf:e2 and Berlin) - if the provenance otherwise showed that
> Klaus became mayor (when cf:klausTheMayor was generated) *afte*r cf:e2
> was generated, then the provenance account is inconsistent,  but this
> can't be shown by the constraints of PROV-DM as far as I can tell.
>
>
>
> Note that PROV-DM does not specifically allow such nesting of
> attribute values, there all attribute values are strings. If a
> property value was to be interpreted as a URI or identifier of another
> entity or other resource, than that seems outside of scope for PROV-DM
> - so we can take the same view in PROV-O.
>
>
Received on Thursday, 20 October 2011 13:47:18 GMT

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