Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]

just caught up with the entire *Sunday* thread only to discover much ado about very little: "Literals" in DM are not RDF 
"Literals".  Doh!

But I am surprised as it couldn't have been, because DM should not prescribe anything regarding the mapping to OWL/RDF space.

DM says:


        5.5.5Literal


        Literals represent data values such as particular string or integers.


My understanding is it's always been used in the standard grammar production meaning (eg: 
http://savage.net.au/SQL/sql-2003-2.bnf.html#literal). Not so?

It only becomes a problem when you wear SW glasses.

But I don't mind changing it everywhere if there is an alternative proposal?

Cheers
  -Paolo








  On 11/7/11 12:51 AM, Tim Lebo wrote:
> Sounds great. Would a DM-er be able to take a first stab?
>
> I can review and comment.
>
> Best,
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 6, 2011, at 17:33, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>  wrote:
>
>> Hi Tim
>>
>> Maybe we can change the terminology in prov-dm to avoid confusion?
>>
>>
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science
>> University of Southampton
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 21:48, "Timothy Lebo"<lebot@rpi.edu>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes Uris are allowed.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Luc.
>>> I think this specific point should make it into DM somewhere, so we can point to.
>>> I think lots of people are going to ask about this.
>>> It will be quite interesting to see how a Literal can become a URI for anyone coming from RDF.
>>>
>>> -Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>> University of Southampton
>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>
>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 18:09, "Paul Groth"<p.t.groth@vu.nl>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Luc
>>>>>
>>>>> So I don't get it. The point is that people want to use uris for roles in their applications. This makes complete sense. The question is if this is legal in the data model?
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought it was intended to be ok but currently it's not clear in prov-dm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 6, 2011, at 18:37, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Stephan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The key thing for me is that it's not an identifier, as explained before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seemed that reusing 'typed literal' would be a good option. I am open
>>>>>> to any other suggestion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Luc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/11/11 17:22, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>>>>>>> Does this imply that all qualifiers must be typed literals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Stephan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Luc Moreau [mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk]
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 10:00 AM
>>>>>>> To: Jim McCusker
>>>>>>> Cc: Provenance Working Group WG
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data
>>>>>>> Model]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is intentionally that we use typed literals here, and not identifiers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we allow identifiers, then in effect we would have introduced a new
>>>>>>> relation;  it would be better defined as prov-dm relation, rather than
>>>>>>> hidden in a qualifier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's wrong with "the role of president"  here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Luc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 06/11/11 15:19, Jim McCusker wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Make Roles resources like Entities. Classes of Roles (Creator,
>>>>>>>> Publisher, PrincipleInvestigator) are instantiated for each Entity. Of
>>>>>>>> course, this is rather similar to what's been rejected (?), but is
>>>>>>>> still the best choice, IMO. This would be, for instance, "Barack
>>>>>>>> Obama's role as president", as opposed to "the role of president",
>>>>>>>> which would be a class.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Role could also be an extension of skos:Concept and allow you to
>>>>>>>> express "the role of president" directly without custom instantiation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok, so, what's alternative suggestion ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>>>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>>>>>>> University of Southampton
>>>>>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>>>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 12:59, "Jim McCusker"<mccusj@rpi.edu>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is a misunderstanding of a URI literal versus URI resource.
>>>>>>>>>> When a URI resource is used, it can link to that resource when it
>>>>>>>>>> has assertions made about it. This is not possible or intended with
>>>>>>>>>> URI literals.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Tim,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But doesn't this include URIs by means of typed literals?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>>>>>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>>>>>>>>> University of Southampton
>>>>>>>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>>>>>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6 Nov 2011, at 01:20, "Provenance Working Group Issue
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracker"<sysbot+tracker@w3.org>    wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> PROV-ISSUE-142 (Tlebo): Can roles only be Literals? [Data Model]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/142
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>>>>>>>>>>>> On product: Data Model
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> prov-dm, 5.5.1 Qualifier:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The value associated with a role attribute must be conformant with
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Literal."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will this prevent PROV-O from using URIs to cite roles?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Restricting roles to literals will be severely limiting for PROV-O and
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> semantic web applications, since literals cannot be described or served as
>>>>>>> linked data, and thus consumers will be unable to determine more information
>>>>>>> about what the role means.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jim McCusker
>>>>>>>>>> Programmer Analyst
>>>>>>>>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics Yale School of Medicine
>>>>>>>>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
>>>>>>>>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> PhD Student
>>>>>>>>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>>>>>>>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>>>>>>>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
>>>>>>>>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>


-- 
-----------  ~oo~  --------------
Paolo Missier - Paolo.Missier@newcastle.ac.uk, pmissier@acm.org
School of Computing Science, Newcastle University,  UK
http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/Paolo.Missier