- From: Simon Miles <simon.miles@kcl.ac.uk>
- Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:21:45 +0100
- To: Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Luc, OK, thanks, I've added my revision of the definition to the Wiki page as suggested. Thanks, Simon On 21 June 2011 14:52, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: > > Some quick comments. > > On 06/21/2011 01:31 PM, Simon Miles wrote: >> Paul, Luc, >> >> I'm OK with the definition, but I think it could be simplified and >> clarified a little, and suggest: >> >> Derivation represents how stuff is transformed from or affected by >> other stuff. A thing B is derived from a thing A if the values of some >> invariant properties of B are at least partially determined by the >> values of some invariant properties of A. >> >> The reasons for this proposed revision: >> >> 1. "A was used (and therefore created) before B was created" means the >> definition of "derivation" is based on those for "use" and >> "generation". This property seems, in practice, necessitated by B >> having been determined by A anyway. >> > I think it's useful if all temporal properties are made explicit somewhere. > It may be in the definition or in an explanation of it. They are precise, > and they represent a necessary condition for derivation (and other > relations). > > My experience is that derivation is dependent on use/generation, but > it may be too early to go to this level of detail. > >> 2. The first sentence mixes plural with singular, so it is unclear how >> many things a derivation relates. >> > > OK >> 3. The "in the real world" caveat seems unnecessary if "things" are >> defined to be explicitly about the real world. Moreover, if we decide >> to revise the definition of "thing" to cover more than the real world, >> then derivation would also have to be revised. >> >> > > Agreed. Once we converge towards common definitions, we can > have a general preamble about the real world, and avoid this kind > of repetition. > > You should definitely add it to the wiki. > Luc >> Thanks, >> Simon >> >> On 20 June 2011 21:07, Paul Groth<pgroth@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> What do people think of Luc's definition of derivation: >>> >>> - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov >>> /wiki/ConceptDerivation#Definition_by_Luc_.28in_terms_of_properties.29 >>> Things represent stuff in the real-world. >>> >>> Definition of Derivation. A derivation represents how stuffs are >>> transformed or affect each other in the real world. >>> >>> A thing B is derived from a thing A if: >>> >>> A was used (and therefore created) before B was created >>> The values of some invariant properties of B are partially determined by >>> the values of some invariant properties of A >>> >>> James you seemed to suggest another way to define derivation or not >>> define it all? Can you be more specific? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >>> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> >> > > -- > Professor Luc Moreau > Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 > University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865 > Southampton SO17 1BJ email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk > United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > -- Dr Simon Miles Lecturer, Department of Informatics Kings College London, WC2R 2LS, UK +44 (0)20 7848 1166
Received on Tuesday, 21 June 2011 14:22:13 UTC