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Re: smaller example

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:51:16 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|d6131adf1455e768cf6ce2bcbc3ebd0an5DApQ08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4DF72F14.6080103@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi Simon,

I think we concur. I have adapted the example taking into account the 
terminology
we defined with Jim yesterday. [1]

It would be nice to get feedback from the working group, since we may want
to reach agreement on Thursday.

[1] 
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConceptInvariantViewOnThing#Definition_by_Jim_and_Luc_v2_.28in_progress.29

Cheers,
Luc

On 06/13/2011 02:51 PM, Simon Miles wrote:
> Luc,
>
> I think the example is helpful, and I suggest the discussion at the
> end suggests that "invariant view or perspective on a thing" is not
> quite right. All of i0, i1, i2, i3, i4 and i5 are more obviously
> things than views: a file, or a file with some content, or the content
> of a message.
>
> Instead, I suggest we mean "thing which is invariant from some
> perspective", i.e. what we are talking about when referring to i0-i5
> is the thing, not the view.
>
> They are all invariant in some way. For i1 to i5 they are invariant
> from the perspective of their content, at very least. For i0, it is
> invariant from the perspective of its identity, i.e. the reason why we
> talk about i0 as a thing at all is that it is consistently
> (invariantly) considered the same file even if its contents are
> changed.
>
> I suggest i0 can be included in the Mapping as follows:
> "We have some Abstractions I ->  I:
> i1 ->  i0
> i2 ->  i0
> i3 ->  i0"
> (meaning the abstraction of i1 is i0 etc.) Jim used the term
> "abstraction" in his proposal for "resource" definition, but other
> terms may be as good.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon
>
> On 13 June 2011 10:37, Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>  wrote:
>    
>> Dear all,
>>
>> PROV-ISSUE-1
>> PROV-ISSUE-8
>> PROV-ISSUE-19
>>
>> On June 7th [1], we agreed on "In a first instance, to define the
>> necessary concepts
>> that allow us  to express the provenance of an invariant view or
>> perspective on a thing".
>> Putting this in practice turns out to be difficult.
>>
>> While the egg example is interesting, the scenario seems to evolve all
>> the time. Also, I
>> thought that, in a first instance, we may want to look at things that
>> are digital, before
>> seeing how our ideas extend to the non-digital world.
>>
>> Obviously, we have our data journalism example, but we seem to ignore. I
>> think that we ignore
>> it because:
>> - it does not focus on changing things
>> - it is not precise about how information is published/access,
>> - it is quite long
>> (I liked what Simon proposed for this example [2] and this inspired me here)
>>
>>
>> To unblock the situation, I have:
>> - drafted a smaller example [3], focusing on a file being updated
>> - tried to illustrate examples of IVPTs in this example
>> - highlighted an example of IVPT that I don't know how to handle.
>>
>> In this example, it would be good to see
>> - where we have consensus
>> - where we have disagreement
>> - how we handle the outstanding example (i0) of IVPT
>>
>> Feedback by email or on wiki welcome!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Luc
>>
>>
>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0096.html
>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Jun/0069.html
>> [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FileExample
>>
>> --
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>
>>
>>
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>>      
>
>
>    

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Tuesday, 14 June 2011 09:52:06 GMT

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