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Re: PROV-ISSUE-7 (define-derivation): Definition for Concept 'Derivation' [Provenance Terminology]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 08:00:34 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|5a961ecb77875d42e08481cf6aec0edfn5780d08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4DEF1E12.4020308@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>
CC: Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>, public-prov-wg@w3.org

Hi all,

Having identified a concept of Invariant View or Perspective on Thing 
(IVPT), I'd like to go back
to the meaning of Derivation.

Several of you indicated that Derivation expresses that one IVPT was 
influenced by another IVPT.

Paolo has asked what does it mean to 'influence'? It's a good question!

Will we be able to define a notion of influence that applies for all 
things,
whether physical, digital, conceptual, or other?  Should we go down the 
road of
modelling influence in specific domains?

Regards,
Luc



On 27/05/11 20:34, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>
> On May 27, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>
>> Hi Luc, all
>> In the example c2 is also a derivation of d2, and from my point of view,
>> c2 could also be seen as a derivation from c1, since it is the chart 
>> taken as reference
>> and corected in c2...
>>
>> As for your second question, I think that if we want to be able to cover
>> provenance from resources, resources representations and resources state
>> representation, a derivation must be able to refer to all of them.
>>
>> What do you think?
>
> From the existing example/scenario section on Derivation:
>
> A derivation is a relation between two Resource State Representations 
> that expresses that one RSR was influenced by the other RSR.
>
> A agree that a derivation should be a relation between two like 
> resource abstractions, and I agree with Daniel in that I am not sure 
> we should limit it to RSR.  I believe one Resource could be derived 
> from another Resource, and same with Resource State.  I also believe 
> derivation covers a large spectrum of relationships - FRBR has covered 
> some of this ground on the wide spectrum of different types of 
> derivation so thankfully we do not have to start from scratch. Stories 
> can be derived from other stores, editions of publications are derived 
> from earlier editions, adaptions are derived works,  translations are 
> derived expressions, etc.
>
> I suggest an quick overview of FRBR's conclusions on derivations to 
> provide direction.
>
> I also agree with the suggestion that Version be a specialization / 
> subtype of Derivation, as suggested in the Version section of the 
> existing example/scenario.
>
> --Stephan
>
>> Best,
>> Daniel
>>
>> 2011/5/27 Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk 
>> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>
>>
>>
>>     Dear all,
>>
>>     Over the last week, we debated the notion of resource (PROV-ISSUE-1),
>>     one of the concepts identified in the charter as core to a provenance
>>     data model. It would be good to discuss the notion of derivation.
>>
>>     Do we agree with the illustration of derivation [1]:
>>     in the example, chart c1 is a derivation of data set d1.
>>     Are there other interesting illustrations?
>>
>>     Is derivation relating resources/resource representations/resource
>>     representation states?
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>     Luc
>>
>>     [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/CharterConceptsIllustration
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 05/20/2011 08:07 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>
>>         PROV-ISSUE-7 (define-derivation): Definition for Concept
>>         'Derivation' [Provenance Terminology]
>>
>>         http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/7
>>
>>         Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>         On product: Provenance Terminology
>>
>>         The Provenance WG charter identifies the concept 'Derivation'
>>         as a core concept of the provenance interchange language to
>>         be standardized (see http://www.w3.org/2011/01/prov-wg-charter).
>>
>>         What term do we adopt for the concept 'Derivation'?
>>         How do we define the concept 'Derivation'?
>>         Where does concept 'Derivation' appear in ProvenanceExample?
>>         Which provenance query requires the concept 'Derivation'?
>>
>>         Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConceptDerivation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Professor Luc Moreau
>>     Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>>     University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>>     Southampton SO17 1BJ               email:
>>     l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>     United Kingdom http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>     <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm>
>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 8 June 2011 07:02:44 GMT

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