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Re: PROV-ISSUE-4 (define-agent): Definition for Concept 'Agent' [Provenance Terminology]

From: Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 19:40:59 +0200
Message-ID: <BANLkTimYsjWU2VDiFa2H0dzrN6gRDVqkWQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Satya Sahoo <satya.sahoo@case.edu>
Cc: Jun Zhao <jun.zhao@zoo.ox.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hi Satya, Jun,
I think she means the properties used to describe the resources (once we
finally agree on the concept for it).
Before, when I was talking about services, I was referring to an automatic
data creation service that
creates an RDF file from some other .csv file, for example.

I have no complains about having agents as resources. Otherwise, we would
have to rethink how to model
their provenance.

Best,
Daniel

2011/6/7 Satya Sahoo <satya.sahoo@case.edu>

> Hi Jun,
> > Would you also expect agents to have states, aka resources?
> Even process (execution) have states (initiated/suspended/terminated). I am
> avoiding use of the term resource since I am not sure we have an agreement
> on its definition as yet.
>
> >I would prefer to keep agent simple. That's why I suggest to treat agents
> as resources, if >you want to talk about provenance of that sort of things.
> In this way, we can reuse of a lot >of structure associated with resources.
> They are not incompatible requirements (simple and being able to describe
> their provenance) - I am not sure what are the "structures associated with
> resources".
>
> Overall, I would like to be guided by the requirements of our journalism
> example (and its subsequent extensions or other examples).
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best,
> Satya
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Jun Zhao <jun.zhao@zoo.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Satya,
>>
>> Would you also expect agents to have states, aka resources?
>>
>> I would prefer to keep agent simple. That's why I suggest to treat agents
>> as resources, if you want to talk about provenance of that sort of things.
>> In this way, we can reuse of a lot of structure associated with resources.
>>
>> This is just one way of modelling. Of course, if we do agree to have
>> states for agents, we will need a different way to represent it in the
>> model.
>>
>> I am open to discussions.
>>
>> -- Jun
>>
>>
>> On 07/06/11 17:17, Satya Sahoo wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Daniel and Jun,
>>>  > After reading your definitions I was wondering if an "agent" or a
>>> "controller" could
>>> also have provenance.
>>>
>>> Agents can also have provenance  - in sensor networks the provenance of
>>> the sensor itself will describe its manufacturer, date of manufacture
>>> etc.
>>>
>>>  > if the newspaper or a service is an agent, then it would be helpful
>>> to know who created it, when, what tools were used for doing so,etc.
>>>
>>> If newspaper is treated as an agent in the sense of a corporate entity,
>>> e.g. NYT - we can describe its actions - NYT sued NYC, NYT publishes
>>> four dailies etc. and its provenance - NYT was founded/created by Henry
>>> Raymond in 1851 etc.
>>>
>>> If you meant newspaper as an edition/publication of NYT (today's
>>> edition), then it would be a "resource". I am not sure what you meant by
>>> service?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Satya
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Jun Zhao <jun.zhao@zoo.ox.ac.uk
>>> <mailto:jun.zhao@zoo.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>>    I would expect to have descriptions about agents.
>>>
>>>    When providing provenance descriptions about newspaper or services,
>>>    it might be more appropriate to treat them as "resources".
>>>
>>>    -- Jun
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    On 07/06/11 16:19, Daniel Garijo wrote:
>>>
>>>        Hi Satya, Khalid, all
>>>        After reading your definitions I was wondering if an "agent" or a
>>>        "controller" could
>>>        also have provenance. For example, if the newspaper or a service
>>>        is an
>>>        agent, then it would be
>>>        helpful to know who created it, when, what tools were used for
>>>        doing so,
>>>        etc.
>>>
>>>        If they could have provenance, then they would also become some
>>>        sort of
>>>        "resources"
>>>        too, wouldn't they?
>>>
>>>        What do you think?
>>>
>>>        Best,
>>>        Daniel
>>>
>>>        2011/6/6 Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk
>>>        <mailto:Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
>>>        <mailto:Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk
>>>        <mailto:Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>            Hi,
>>>
>>>            I added a definition of the concept "agent".
>>>
>>>            Definition: An agent is a (physical or digital) entity that
>>>        controls
>>>            one or multiple process executions
>>>
>>>            - The newspaper, the blogger and the government portal are
>>>        examples
>>>            of agents
>>>
>>>            I would prefer to use the term “controller” instead of
>>>        “agent”. To
>>>            me, the term “agent” is a bit vague.
>>>
>>>            Thanks, khalid
>>>
>>>
>>>            On 20/05/2011 08:04, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker
>>>        wrote:
>>>
>>>                PROV-ISSUE-4 (define-agent): Definition for Concept
>>> 'Agent'
>>>                [Provenance Terminology]
>>>
>>>        http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/4
>>>
>>>                Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>                On product: Provenance Terminology
>>>
>>>                The Provenance WG charter identifies the concept 'Agent'
>>>        as a
>>>                core concept of the provenance interchange language to be
>>>                standardized (see
>>>        http://www.w3.org/2011/01/prov-wg-charter).
>>>
>>>                What term do we adopt for the concept 'Agent'?
>>>                How do we define the concept 'Agent'?
>>>                Where does concept 'Agent' appear in ProvenanceExample?
>>>                Which provenance query requires the concept 'Agent'?
>>>
>>>                Wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ConceptAgent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 7 June 2011 17:41:37 GMT

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