- From: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
- Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 11:16:06 -0400
- To: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
- Cc: Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>, W3C Prov <public-prov-comments@w3.org>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <214A32DE-BD12-4041-B8B0-57AE304DD1A7@rpi.edu>
> On Jul 1, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote: > > Hi Daniel, > > I didn't think there was formal proposal to remove generatedAtTime. +1; merely a log. > This can only be enacted by a new Working > Group in any case. > > I understood Tim's email (and previous conversation I had with him) as logging of a discrepancy between prov-o and prov-dm, > to be resolved by a future Working Group. Since the extra properties “snuck in” as a Rec, then it would likely mean that the DM and other serializations would need to catch up. -Tim > > Luc > > > On 01/07/2015 15:56, Daniel Garijo wrote: >> Hi Luc, >> I understand. However, prov:generatedAtTime was introduced as a shortcut function. >> I have seen it widely used by people adopting PROV in order to avoid having to use blank nodes or qualified terms. >> >> It is also used in the prov-dc direct mappings for mapping dct:created, dct:dateAccepted, dct:dateCopyRighted, dct:dateSubmitted, dct:issued and dct:modified. That document was reviewed and accepted by the group. >> >> If we now remove this relationship, it will create inconsistencies with the PROV-DC document. And it will introduce inconsistencies with the people who have extended and adopted PROV. I think it is better to have prov:generatedAtTime as redundant shortcut property rather than remove it. >> >> Best, >> Daniel >> >> 2015-07-01 16:38 GMT+02:00 Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>: >> Hi Daniel, >> >> We don't have formal mappings between our representations. So, I am not sure there is an authoritative >> answer. >> >> Looking at activities, in prov-n, we can write: >> activity(a,2001-10-26T21:32:52,2001-10-26T21:32:53) >> This corresponds to >> a prov:startedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52. >> a prov:endedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:53. >> >> For entities, we don't have time information allowed in prov-n: >> >> entity(e) >> >> Instead, wasGeneratedBy(e,-,2001-10-26T21:32:52) can be translated using the qualitifed pattern. >> >> e prov:hadQualifiedGeneration [ prov:atTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52] >> >> >> Luc >> >> >> >> On 01/07/2015 15:27, Daniel Garijo wrote: >>> Hi Luc, >>> I am sorry, but I must be missing something here. >>> generatedAt time (Entity->dateTime) is an attribute of Entity. >>> atTime (InstantaneousEvent ->dateTime) is an attirbute of Generation, among others like End or Start. >>> >>> Example 20 in Prov-DM (http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2 <http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2>) states that "wasGeneratedBy(e, -, 2001-10-26T21:32:52)" is valid. And that is equivalent to "e prov:generatedAtTime 2001-10-26T21:32:52", right? >>> >>> I still fail to see where the issue is :( >>> Daniel >>> >>> 2015-07-01 16:10 GMT+02:00 Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>>: >>> Hi Daniel, >>> >>> Time is an attribute of generation, not of entity, as it currently stands. >>> >>> Luc >>> >>> >>> On 01/07/2015 15:04, Daniel Garijo wrote: >>>> Hi Tim, >>>> are you suggesting to delete prov:generatedAtTime?? >>>> Example 20 in PROV-DM shows how to do the equivalent thing with DM: >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2 <http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-prov-dm-20130430/Overview.html#anexample-generation2> >>>> >>>> I think this was a very useful property for stating the creation time of an entity without having to qualify the generation term. >>>> It is also used in the prov-dc mapping. I don't understand why this is an issue. >>>> Best, >>>> Daniel >>>> >>>> 2015-07-01 15:37 GMT+02:00 Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>>: >>>> Please note a recent addition to the PROV Errata [1] regarding PROV-O’s generation and invalidation time properties, copied below. >>>> >>>> The entry resolves issue [2]. >>>> >>>> Thanks to Luc and his team for pointing out the disparity. >>>> Thanks to Ivan for publishing the revised Errata document. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> Error o-5 <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html#o-5>, generation and invalidation time properties have no equivalent in prov-dm >>>> >>>> in (22) Property: prov:generatedAtTime <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#generatedAtTime> and in (27) Property: prov:invalidatedAtTime <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#invalidatedAtTime>, prov:generatedAtTime and prov:invalidatedAtTime properties should not be defined because they have no equivalent in prov-dm and thus no equivalent in other PROV serializations. >>>> >>>> (22) Property: prov:generatedAtTime >>>> >>>> IRI:http:// <>www.w3.org/ns/prov#generatedAtTime <http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#generatedAtTime> >>>> (27) Property: prov:invalidatedAtTime >>>> >>>> IRI:http:// <>www.w3.org/ns/prov#invalidatedAtTime <http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#invalidatedAtTime> >>>> >>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html#o-5 <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/errata.html#o-5> >>>> [2] https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/issues/4 <https://github.com/timrdf/prov-wg/issues/4> >>>> >>>> Timothy Lebo >>>> lebot@rpi.edu <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu> >>>> https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo <https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Professor Luc Moreau >>> Head of the Web and Internet Science Group >>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487> >>> University of Southampton twitter: @lucmoreau >>> Southampton SO17 1BJ, UK http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Professor Luc Moreau >> Head of the Web and Internet Science Group >> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 <tel:%2B44%2023%208059%204487> >> University of Southampton twitter: @lucmoreau >> Southampton SO17 1BJ, UK http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm> >> >> >> > > -- > Professor Luc Moreau > Head of the Web and Internet Science Group > Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487 > University of Southampton twitter: @lucmoreau > Southampton SO17 1BJ, UK http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm> > > Timothy Lebo lebot@rpi.edu https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo <https://impactstory.org/TimothyLebo>
Received on Wednesday, 1 July 2015 15:18:15 UTC