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Re: Location services and age limit Re: Location in the news

From: Mark Lizar <info@smartspecies.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 00:35:48 +0100
Cc: marcosc@opera.com, johnc1912@msn.com, aramp@qualcomm.com, ifette@google.com, karl+w3c@la-grange.net, david.rogers@wholesaleappcommunity.com, public-privacy@w3.org, Eve Maler <eve@xmlgrrl.com>
Message-Id: <D221A2B0-13F3-4F7F-BF1A-16528CD7F5AC@smartspecies.com>
To: <Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com> <Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com>
Hi Fredrick,

Thanks for this update, this is an issue that is being looked at in  
the UMA Work Group at Kantara, maybe this would be a good use case for  
UMA protocal at Kantara Initiative which is led by Eve Maler.

I think UMA may have a lot to offer as a practical approach to  
addressing some of these poignant issues discussed here.



On 4 Aug 2010, at 20:12, <Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com> <Frederick.Hirsch@nokia.com 
 > wrote:

> In conjunction with the recent DAP [1] F2F some of us attended a  
> meeting at the UK Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre  
> (CEOP) [2].
> What became clear to me from that visit is that although there may  
> always have been problems in the area of child exploitation, the  
> internet, and especially social networks, have become a new emerging  
> and significant enabler of an increase in the amount of child  
> molestation. (In this case the CEOP explicitly mentioned  
> inappropriate behavior by a child in front of a web camera at the  
> behest of another as molestation even without physical interaction.)
> It seems that there is a real social concern emerging with new  
> technology.
> That said, it seems that we cannot expect an API definition alone to  
> solve social issues  that include legal and enforcement aspects. As  
> others have stated, these issues are complicated and I would expect  
> the legal and regulatory community to be concerned.
> The DAP is trying to address privacy issues in a practical manner,  
> so concrete and pragmatic proposals are welcome in that group.
> It appears some work will have to happen elsewhere, in particular at  
> the service provider side, perhaps for authorization based on age.
> regards, Frederick
> Frederick Hirsch, Nokia
> Co-Chair, W3C DAP Working Group
> [1] http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/
> [2] http://www.ceop.gov.uk/about/
> On Aug 4, 2010, at 5:35 AM, ext Marcos Caceres wrote:
>> On 8/4/10 10:58 AM, John Carr wrote:
>>> I'd hate to get between you and your cows. I'll check with the Cow
>>> Liberation Front to see if they have any problems with this, but I  
>>> surely
>>> don't.
>>> Seriously, I agree. I guess my point is that the big companies  
>>> that are
>>> rolling out these services should behave more responsibly.
>> Not everyone lives in the same world you do, John. I honestly don't  
>> know
>> of any predators or pedophiles or nasty people. It's not something I
>> think about or every have had to deal with. Hence, it's good that you
>> come in and advocate this stuff to us because it's sometimes hard to
>> forget some of societies problems.
>> However, I still think it's a fair question to ask:
>> 1) how much of a real problem is it? What is actually happening (all
>> media beat-up aside). I'm not willing to give up civil liberties and
>> human rights without absolute proof of problems and actual evidence  
>> that
>> the solutions being proposed help.
>>> They should have
>>> worked all this out.
>> Yeah, and the Stanley knife people should have worked out that people
>> would use those knifes to hijack planes. And that hammer people  
>> should
>> have worked out that if you hit someone over the head with it, it  
>> will
>> kill them.
>> John, for the last time: IT'S A DUMB TOOL! It's exactly like a  
>> hammer.
>> If people abuse a hammer, then it's a weapon. The hammer is just a
>> hammer. The geolocation API is just an API: it just tells one where
>> something is.
>>> That would have been the socially responsible thing to
>>> do.
>> It was not designed to go out and hurt people. It just gets the  
>> location
>> of things.
>>> The API, as such, is not the primary issue, but can you guys find  
>>> a way
>>> out of the dilemma?
>> There is no dilemma. There is only you making up some bogus hysteria
>> about there being some problem which you have continuously fail to
>> present any evidence actually exists.
>>> We shouldn't have to do this but if we do press for laws on this,  
>>> will the
>>> big companies fight them? Use their lobbying power and their  
>>> lawyers to try
>>> to defeat us or delay things until they have anyway amassed a huge  
>>> amount of
>>> location data which they can analyse and use for commercial  
>>> purposes?
>> Or should we hand all our details to some big centralized database,  
>> so
>> we can do age verification... and then that data can also be used for
>> commercial purposes (or worst) by governments?
>>> I'm sorry for banging on about the big companies, but to quote  
>>> Superman
>>> "With great power, goes great responsibility".
>> I thought that was spiderman?
>>> To their great credit, not
>>> all big companies are rushing into this  market. Only some of them  
>>> are.
>> -- 
>> Marcos Caceres
>> Opera Software
Received on Tuesday, 31 August 2010 23:37:37 UTC

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