- From: Sam Kronick <sam.kronick@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:47:44 -0700
- To: roBman@mob-labs.com
- Cc: "public-poiwg@w3.org" <public-poiwg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <BANLkTi=LiVCzeNV1PVj1spyZaAKn+fQRGw@mail.gmail.com>
The POI-WG pages Rob links to are fairly clear on this issue, and specifically say a POI is "loosely coupled to location"-- that it can move. What I find interesting is that I joined this list via a link from a broader "AR Standards" group: http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/join/ and it sounds like others may have as well. Augmented reality can and should include things beyond the POI model found in the leading AR "browsers" like Layar, Junaio and Wikitude. The POI model function best as a navigation aid, directing you to nearby businesses, landmarks, or people. Whether these targets are static or mobile can be determined by the use case. But fundamentally different approaches to AR include visual search and informational overlays-- a model where software helps you answer not /where/ something is, but /what/ it is, /how/ to use it, or to find out /how/ it's operating. The difference is between asking "where is the nearest 66 Camaro?" and "what is that car over there? When was it made? How fast does it go? Who owns it?" So from my point of view, POIs need location because they are inherently locative. POIs are not, however, synonymous with augmented reality as a whole. Sam Kronick On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Rob Manson <roBman@mob-labs.com> wrote: > The POI-WG pages[1] clearly list it as the "Points of Interest (POI) > Working Group". > > On the POI-WG wiki page the "What is a POI?" section[2] lists this: > > "Wikipedia defines a POI as a Point Of Interest ... a specific > point location that someone may find useful or interesting. But > for the purposes of this Working Group, we need a more subtle > and complex definition." > > I think it's pretty clear that based on this context and the ongoing > discussion threads that a POI includes a reference to a Point with the > relevant Location data. > > I think the "we need a more subtle and complex definition" part is just > misleading and will keep drawing people back to this circular > discussion. > > There's nothing preventing Queries against POI datastores for the string > or keywords "66 Camaro" without providing the Location data as a Query > parameter...but that doesn't mean that a POI Representation should be > able to exist without Location data. This is why I think this > discussion is simply blurring the distinctions between Representation, > Query and their impact on the meaning of Location[3]. > > If you drop Location from the Representation then you might as well drop > the POI-WG too...or significantly broaden it's terms of reference back > out to other types of sensor data! (Patterns of Interest?![4]) But > without a unique aspect of either Location or Sensor Data then you're > just talking about Linked Data or some other existing and well covered > topic. > > However, the Location should be scoped in time and should be able to be > dynamic in a number of ways. This is pretty standard stuff we already > do a lot with the different AR Browsers and I don't see any challenges > or confusion here at all. > > If you want to also map out the historical log of Location updates for a > specific POI then that can easily be done too...but that again is > separate from the basic core POI Representation. > > > roBman > > [1] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/ > [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Main_Page > [3] http://arstandards.org/pipermail/discussion/2011-April/000187.html > [4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2010Aug/0053.html > > > On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 17:19 -0400, Andy Braun wrote: > > In the case of a roving POI, the location is usable but often not a > > interesting piece of information. > > > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Roy Davies > > <roy.c.davies@flexstudio.co.nz> wrote: > > Could not a POI be attached to a roving physical thing, > > however, like a Taxi or Bus? I interpret POI as Point of > > Interest rather than Place of Interest. And a Point of > > Interest could be attached to something that is moving. > > Further, to me, a POI may be temporary, so be at a particular > > point (or roving object) for only a certain period of time. > > > > > > /Roy. > > -- > > -------------------------------------------- > > Dr. Roy C. Davies, The VR Guy. > > -------------------------------------------- > > Managing Director, LOOK-HERE IP Holdings Ltd. > > Consultant and Managing Director, The Flexible Reality Studio > > Ltd. > > Senior Research Fellow, VRSuite, CoLab, Auckland University of > > Technology (AUT) > > > > > > EMAIL: roy.c.davies@ieee.org, roy.c.davies@flexstudio.co.nz, > > roy.c.davies@aut.ac.nz, roycdavies@mac.com > > > > > > LINKEDIN: http://nz.linkedin.com/in/roycdavies > > MYSPACE: http://www.myspace.com/roycdavies > > FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/roy.c.davies > > TWITTER: http://twitter.com/roycdavies > > > > > > SKYPE: roycdavies > > MSN: roy.c.davies@ieee.org > > ICQ: 2557565 > > YOUTUBE: drroycdavies > > > > > > PH: +64 (0)21 795294, +64 (0)9 8338360 > > WEB: www.flexstudio.co.nz, www.look-here.info, > > www.humanitycomputer.org, www.forwardthinking.org.nz, > > www.colab.org.nz > > > > > > On 27/04/2011, at 7:24 AM, Seiler, Karl wrote: > > > > > If POI stands for Place-of-interest then by definition and > > > scope/charter we are defining the means to describe a place. > > > > > > Also, if we want to drop the idea of a Place-of-interest > > > having an “unknown” location, to keep from sliding sideways > > > into descriptions of concepts, then I am OK with that. > > > > > > _______________________________ > > > Karl Seiler > > > Director Location Technology & Services > > > NAVTEQ - Chicago > > > (T) +312-894-7231 > > > (M) +312-375-5932 > > > www.navteq.com > > > > > > From: public-poiwg-request@w3.org [mailto: > public-poiwg-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Andy Braun > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 2:09 PM > > > To: nathan@webr3.org > > > Cc: Thomas Wrobel; Hegde, Vinod; public-poiwg@w3.org; Dan > > > Brickley > > > Subject: Re: Categorization + Whether a POI must have > > > location > > > > > > My question about whether or not a POI must have a location > > > comes down to whether or not location is important. > > > > > > Take for example the "'66 Camaro", I can identify this > > > point of interest by its distinctive style. There is a great > > > deal of interesting data associated with this car. While I > > > will not try to argue that this car has no location, I would > > > argue that its location isn't necessary to pull the > > > interesting data. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Nathan <nathan@webr3.org> > > > wrote: > > > Thomas Wrobel wrote: > > > " to let users create POIs for Art of Computer Programming, > > > Easter > > > ,The Social Network " > > > > > > No, because they arnt POIs. > > > We arnt trying to make a database of all concepts here. > > > (Thats what > > > Linked data is for, theres already plenty of databases > > > forming for all > > > sorts of conceptual things; > > > http://www.schemaweb.info/schema/BrowseSchema.aspx has a > > > few) > > > > > > +1, fully agree. > > > > > > > > > A POI could have a category, but that doesn't mean > > > all categories are POIs. > > > > > > have a category, or be a category? > > > > > > > > > "Can users create these POI’s with location as > > > unknown.?" > > > > > > I hope not, to me that seems exactly like making a > > > "href" in html > > > without pointing it anywhere - its meaningless. > > > I vote strongly for POIs needing a location (of some > > > form) in order to > > > be valid. > > > > > > agree, a specific point, a region or a path - pretty much a > > > usefully constrained subset of the OpenGIS concepts. > > > > > > on that note, the main questions I'd raise are: > > > > > > a - support for real world locations only? > > > b - any spatial world, real or not? > > > c - coordinates for space, relating to say planets or > > > satellites? > > > > > > (gut instinct says only a). > > > > > > Following on from that, define abstract datatypes and > > > certain lexical forms to be used in say XML and JSON or RDF. > > > > > > Following on from that, perhaps a schema for the properties, > > > defined in RDF, XML-Schema and JSON-Schema. > > > > > > If this WG did all of that (even though I'm only on the > > > outskirts and have no knowledge other than the charter and > > > browsing a few mails), it'd be a great addition to the web, > > > IMHO. > > > > > > Unsure: > > > - any need for a specific scheme to encode locations in a > > > URI form? If so, new scheme or data: or using some fragments > > > form like media fragments did? > > > > > > All the Best, > > > > > > Nathan > > > > > > > > > To me a POI should, essentially, be a physical > > > hyperlink - a way to > > > link the real and virtual worlds together in some > > > form. > > > > > > -Thomas > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~ > > > Reviews of anything, by anyone; > > > www.rateoholic.co.uk > > > Please try out my new site and give feedback :) > > > > > > > > > > > > On 20 April 2011 16:32, Hegde, Vinod > > > <vinod.hegde@deri.org> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > Once we use some real world categorization schema as > > > defined in say > > > Wikipedia, it lets us define categories for almost > > > all the ‘entities’ we > > > know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_Computer_Programming Categories it > > > belongs to : 1968 books | 1969 books | 1973 books | > > > 1981 books | Computer > > > books | Computer programming | Computer science > > > books | Algorithms | Analysis of algorithms | > > > Monographs | Books by Donald > > > Knuth | Addison-Wesley books It HAS NO LOCATION > > > > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter Categories it > > > belongs to : > > > Easter | Christian holidays | Holy Week It HAS NO > > > LOCATION > > > > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_NetworkCategories it belongs to: > > > 2010 films | American films | English-language > > > films | Facebook | 2010s > > > drama films | American biographical films | American > > > business > > > films |American legal drama films | Courtroom dramas > > > | Films whose writer > > > won the Best Adapted Screenplay Academy Award | Best > > > Original Music Score > > > Academy Award winners | Films whose editor won the > > > Best Film Editing Academy > > > Award | Films directed by David Fincher | Films > > > about technology | Films > > > about the media | Films about fraternities and > > > sororities | Films based on > > > non-fiction books | Films set in California | Films > > > set in > > > Massachusetts | Films set in 2003 | Films set in > > > 2004 | Films set in > > > 2005 | Films shot digitally | Films shot in > > > California | Films shot in > > > Massachusetts | Nonlinear narrative films | > > > Relativity Media > > > films | Columbia Pictures films It HAS NO LOCATION > > > > > > > > > > > > My concern was whether we are going to let users > > > create POIs for Art of > > > Computer Programming, Easter ,The Social Network and > > > millions of such ‘real > > > world’ entities( for which we can identify some > > > category in Wikipedia but > > > the entity itself has no location). > > > > > > > > > > > > That is are we going to let users create POIs > > > belonging to categories which > > > do not support location in their semantics.? > > > > > > Can users create these POI’s with location as > > > unknown.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vinod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > The information contained in this communication may be > > > CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the > > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended > > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > > > distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of > > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received > > > this communication in error, please notify the sender and > > > delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from > > > your computer or paper files. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Friday, 29 April 2011 08:52:27 UTC