- From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 13:05:46 -0600
- To: "W3C WAI Protocols & Formats" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <OF474E9ABC.A60488D7-ON86257DD5.0068B731-86257DD5.0068E62B@us.ibm.com>
web:
http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-aria-minutes.html
text:
IRC log of aria on 2015-01-22
Timestamps are in UTC.
17:25:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aria
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-aria-irc
17:25:07 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
17:25:07 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #aria
17:25:09 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:25:09 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
17:25:10 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:25:10 [trackbot]
Date: 22 January 2015
17:25:11 [richardschwerdtfeger]
chair: Rich
17:25:20 [richardschwerdtfeger]
meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
17:25:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, make log public
17:26:49 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0116.html
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LJWatson has joined #aria
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WAI_PFWG()12:30PM has now started
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+Fred_Esch
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fesch has joined #aria
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+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
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+Joanmarie_Diggs
17:30:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0105.html
17:31:37 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:31:57 [LJWatson]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
17:31:57 [Zakim]
+LJWatson; got it
17:33:11 [clown]
clown has joined #aria
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+[GVoice]
17:34:25 [clown]
zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:34:25 [Zakim]
+Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:34:36 [clown]
zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:34:36 [Zakim]
ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:38:46 [jongund]
jongund has joined #aria
17:40:13 [jongund]
The bridge won't let me in
17:41:02 [Zakim]
+Jon_Gunderson
17:41:08 [jongund]
I am in now
17:42:31 [richardschwerdtfeger]
scribenick: Rich
17:42:43 [clown]
scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger
17:42:47 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Action 1548 aria-current
17:42:52 [LJWatson]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2015JanMar/0015.html
17:42:55 [clown]
action-1548?
17:42:55 [trackbot]
action-1548 -- Léonie Watson to Write revised proposal for
aria-current based on today’s meeting for issue 587 -- due 2015-01-08
-- OPEN
17:42:55 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1548
17:43:50 [LJWatson]
Aria-current attribute
17:43:52 [LJWatson]
17:43:53 [LJWatson]
Indicates the element that represents the current item within a
container or set of related elements.
17:43:55 [LJWatson]
17:43:56 [LJWatson]
The aria-current attribute is an enumerated type. Any value not
included in the list of allowed values must be treated by user agents
as if the value true
17:43:58 [LJWatson]
had been provided. If the attribute is not present or its value is an
empty string, the default value of false applies and the aria-current
state must
17:43:59 [LJWatson]
not be exposed by user agents or assistive technologies.
17:44:01 [LJWatson]
17:44:02 [LJWatson]
The aria-current attribute is used when an element within a set of
related elements is visually styled to indicate it is the current
item in the set. For
17:44:04 [LJWatson]
example:
17:44:05 [LJWatson]
17:44:07 [LJWatson]
The page token could be used to indicate a link within a set of
pagination links, where the link is visually styled to represent the
currently displayed
17:44:08 [LJWatson]
page.
17:44:10 [LJWatson]
The step token could be used to indicate a link within a step
indicator for a step-based process, where the link is visually styled
to represent the current
17:44:11 [LJWatson]
step.
17:44:13 [LJWatson]
The location token could be used to indicate the image that is
visually highlighted as the current component of a flowchart.
17:44:14 [LJWatson]
The date token could be used to indicate the current date within a
calendar.
17:44:16 [LJWatson]
The time token could be used to indicate the current time within a
timetable.
17:44:17 [LJWatson]
17:44:19 [LJWatson]
Note:
17:44:20 [LJWatson]
The aria-current attribute is similar to the aria-selected attribute,
but there are important differences. For example in a listbox widget
for choosing
17:44:22 [LJWatson]
between pages of search results, aria-current would be used to
indicate the option representing the currently displayed page of
results, Whereas aria-selected
17:44:23 [LJWatson]
would be used to indicate the page of results the user had selected
to be displayed next.
17:44:25 [LJWatson]
17:44:26 [LJWatson]
Characteristics of aria-current
17:44:28 [LJWatson]
Used in roles: All elements of the base markup.
17:44:29 [LJWatson]
Value: token
17:44:31 [LJWatson]
values of aria-current:
17:44:32 [LJWatson]
page = Represents the current page within a set of pages.
17:44:34 [LJWatson]
step = Represents the current step within a process.
17:44:35 [LJWatson]
location = Represents the current location within an environment or
context.
17:44:37 [LJWatson]
date = Represents the current date within a collection of dates.
17:44:38 [LJWatson]
time = Represents the current time within a set of times.
17:44:40 [LJWatson]
true = Represents a current item within a set.
17:44:41 [LJWatson]
false = Default.
17:44:43 [LJWatson]
17:47:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Rich: This is fine. I think we can proceed to Joanie putting this in
17:47:24 [clown]
+1
17:48:46 [Zakim]
+Matt_King
17:49:19 [Stefan]
Stefan has joined #aria
17:50:26 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RESOLUTION: Accept Leonie’s proposal for aria-current and Joanie will
take on the action item to put the aria-current text in the spec.
17:51:01 [joanie]
For the record: I've transferred the action to myself with a due date
of next week.
17:51:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Jon: anything can do with a validator
17:51:06 [richardschwerdtfeger]
group: no
17:51:31 [richardschwerdtfeger]
scribenic: Leonie
17:51:34 [LJWatson]
scribe: LJWatson
17:51:41 [LJWatson]
zakim, next item
17:51:41 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
17:51:44 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Action 1440
17:51:48 [Zakim]
+christian
17:51:59 [clown]
action-1440?
17:52:00 [trackbot]
action-1440 -- Joanmarie Diggs to landmarks section uses "region of
page" in prose even though "region" is not a landmark -- due
2015-01-22 -- OPEN
17:52:00 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1440
17:52:01 [LJWatson]
TOPIC: Action-1440
17:52:07 [richardschwerdtfeger]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/1440/aria/aria.html#region
17:52:38 [LJWatson]
JMD: It's the whole 1440 branch that has been worked on.
17:53:18 [mattking]
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17:55:01 [LJWatson]
MK: Landmark is abstract.
17:56:47 [LJWatson]
RS: On first pass think this looks pretty cool.
17:58:49 [LJWatson]
RS: One thing in landmark but not region... MK: Was doing most of the
editing on this, after Joanie changed the hierarchy.
18:00:37 [LJWatson]
FE: It says "must have aria-label..."
18:00:44 [LJWatson]
MK: No, it's not a must.
18:01:30 [LJWatson]
MK: aria-labelledby is used to reference visible content, and I think
that's better. I editorialised but didn't strike out stuff.
18:03:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
scribenick: Rich
18:03:05 [Zakim]
-LJWatson
18:03:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Rich: aside from linking to section in region prose I though this was
fine
18:04:38 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: one unique example. A region that included options for a data
table. Above and below it, it says rows 15 to 1000, rows per page,
18:05:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: So, we had put a navigation region around it an labelled it
results. It is exactly the same content above and below the table
18:05:29 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: It seems to violate a sensory perception rule
18:05:41 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: It mad it completely pointless
18:06:45 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: we have a navigation region labelled results. So, we have two
regions having the same results. Both provide navigation have the
same results above and below the table
18:07:06 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: the table was jut called results
18:07:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: you have results table and results navigation above and below
the table
18:07:30 [jamesn]
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18:07:42 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: you can see that the navigation agenda is there above and below
18:07:52 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: giving them the same label is helpful
18:08:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: I thought about adding location information in the label was
not helpful
18:08:30 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Rich: that is a WCAG violation
18:08:56 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: results navigation located at the top of the table
18:09:04 [richardschwerdtfeger]
joseph: is there an aria-controls?
18:09:25 [Zakim]
+James_Nurthen
18:09:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Matt: the labels are not unique and we have a normative unique
requirement.
18:09:45 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:09:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate
http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-aria-minutes.html jamesn
18:10:00 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Rich: if you take out unique then you make the testing a manual test
18:10:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.596.aaaa
18:12:06 [richardschwerdtfeger]
jamesn: left and right are generally ok but bottom and top are not
18:12:29 [Susann_Keohane]
Susann_Keohane has joined #aria
18:12:36 [jamesn]
rich - that is the wrong way round
18:13:05 [richardschwerdtfeger]
jamesn: correction: bottom and top are generally ok but left and
right are
18:13:11 [richardschwerdtfeger]
jamen: not
18:15:06 [clown]
spelling mistake in landmark text at end of first paragraph: "by
providing a dbrief, descriptive label". "brief" not "dbrief".
18:17:13 [Susann_Keohane]
rich: if you have 2 at the same level with the same name that would
be a potential problem
18:17:41 [Susann_Keohane]
rich: my concern is that is will be a manual test
18:18:00 [mattking]
An element with role region must have a unique label that describes
the purpose of its content. Authors should reference a visible label
with
18:18:02 [mattking]
aria-labelledby
18:18:03 [mattking]
if a visible label is present. Authors should include the label
inside of a heading whenever possible. The heading may be an instance
of the standard
18:18:05 [mattking]
host language heading element or an instance of an element with role
18:18:07 [mattking]
heading.
18:18:41 [clown]
"An element with role region must have a label that describes the
purpose of its content"
18:18:43 [Susann_Keohane]
mattking: if you take the word unique out it doesn't change the
testing requirements. With the work unique you have a manual test
18:19:02 [Susann_Keohane]
mattking: w/o the word unique you still have the same manual test
requirement
18:19:51 [Susann_Keohane]
mattking: this is like link text, you have a unique requirement with
the link labels. the manual test that the link describes it target
18:20:16 [Susann_Keohane]
mattking: also like alt text, you must have alt text and it needs to
be appropiate
18:20:48 [Susann_Keohane]
jamesn: if you are only testing uniqueness you are fooling yourself
you are testing requirement
18:21:07 [Susann_Keohane]
rich: any manual test drives cost through the roof
18:22:00 [Susann_Keohane]
mattking: unique label cause developers to make ugly labels to be
unique
18:23:05 [Susann_Keohane]
mattking: proposes that uniqueness not be in the verbiage
18:23:30 [Susann_Keohane]
jamesn: rather flag it for developers to ensure they are doing the
same thing if not there is a problem
18:23:37 [Susann_Keohane]
rich: what's the groups decision
18:23:45 [jamesn]
unique removed
18:23:46 [Susann_Keohane]
fred: I would like to see unique removed
18:24:12 [shepazu]
shepazu has left #aria
18:24:14 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RESOLUTION: remove unique from region roles
18:26:15 [clown]
issue-695
18:26:15 [trackbot]
issue-695 -- Clean up nits in the ARIA specification -- raised
18:26:15 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/695
18:26:33 [Zakim]
- +1.512.596.aaaa
18:26:37 [Susann_Keohane]
phone just fropped - dialing back in
18:26:43 [Susann_Keohane]
dropped not fropped
18:28:05 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.596.aabb
18:28:39 [clown]
by providing a dbrief, descriptive label.
18:28:59 [clown]
should be "brief".
18:32:17 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
18:32:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs,
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Jon_Gunderson, Matt_King, christian,
James_Nurthen, +1.512.596.aabb
18:32:57 [janina]
zakim, call janina
18:32:57 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
18:32:59 [Zakim]
+Janina
18:33:13 [janina]
zakim, drop janina
18:33:13 [Zakim]
Janina is being disconnected
18:33:14 [Zakim]
-Janina
18:34:39 [clown]
action-1342?
18:34:39 [trackbot]
action-1342 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Patch issue-523: searchbox role
which is a subrole of textbox/textfield -- due 2015-01-15 -- CLOSED
18:34:39 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1342
18:34:45 [clown]
action-1392?
18:34:45 [trackbot]
action-1392 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add a switch role to aria 1.1 in
response to issue-446 -- due 2015-01-15 -- CLOSED
18:34:45 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1392
18:35:07 [richardschwerdtfeger]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#searchbox
18:36:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RESOLUTION: Action 1392 closed as complete
18:37:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
s/1392/1342/
18:38:48 [janina]
zakim, call janina
18:38:48 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
18:38:49 [Zakim]
+Janina
18:39:06 [janina]
zakim, mute me
18:39:06 [Zakim]
Janina should now be muted
18:40:45 [jamesn]
+1 to having the version introduced
18:41:31 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#changelog
18:41:36 [richardschwerdtfeger]
rich: How far do you want to go with this? new or modified?
18:42:32 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Action 1392
18:42:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#searchbox
18:42:47 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#switch
18:44:38 [janina]
zakim, unmute me
18:44:39 [Zakim]
Janina should no longer be muted
18:47:52 [joanie]
action-1568
18:47:53 [trackbot]
action-1568 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Determine if and how and when to
indicate new API (e.g. roles) -- due 2015-01-29 -- OPEN
18:47:53 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1568
18:52:19 [janina]
zakim, mute me
18:52:19 [Zakim]
Janina should now be muted
18:55:41 [clown]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1392
18:57:46 [clown]
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue
18:58:20 [Zakim]
- +1.512.596.aabb
19:00:59 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RESOULTION: Action 1392 is complete
19:01:25 [Zakim]
-James_Nurthen
19:02:12 [janina]
zakim, unmute me
19:02:13 [Zakim]
Janina should no longer be muted
19:02:57 [richardschwerdtfeger]
zakim, bye
19:02:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #aria
19:02:57 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Fred_Esch,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, LJWatson, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
Jon_Gunderson, Matt_King, christian, James_Nurthen,
19:02:57 [Zakim]
... +1.512.596.aaaa, +1.512.596.aabb, Janina
19:03:03 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:03:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate
http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
19:03:30 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, make log public
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Received on Thursday, 22 January 2015 19:14:42 UTC