Minutes from ARIA on 30 April

Minutes from the ARIA Task Force teleconference of 30 April are provided below
as text, and are available as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2015/04/30-aria-minutes.html


   W3C

                                                                                   - DRAFT -

                                                              Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
                                                                                  30 Apr 2015

   Agenda

   See also: IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          Fred_Esch, janina, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, James_Nurthen, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.650.738.aaaa, Matt_King,
          +49.322.110.8.aabb, Stefan_Schnabel, [Microsoft], Cynthia

   Regrets
   Chair
          Rich_Schwerdtfeger

   Scribe
          janina

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Heads Up Items
         2. Extending Aria -- Isue-709
         3. Issue-423
         4. Issue 633 !!
         5. aria-has-manage-focuse
     * Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 30 April 2015

   <scribe> scribe: janina

Heads Up Items

   rs: Scheduling DescribedAt conversation?

   janina: Anytime

   rs: before last week of may or later in June

   <clown> action-1456?

   <trackbot> action-1456 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Provide defintions in action 1454 for each of the annotation types -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1456

   <clown> action-1454?

   <trackbot> action-1454 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add aria-hasannotation attribute with values: comment, footnote, endnote, reference, insertion, deletion, modification,
   true, false, more where aria-hasannotation has only one value at a time -- due 2014-06-23 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1454

   rs: Noting coming annotations ml for ARIA
   ... Need to get wider review

Extending Aria -- Isue-709

   <clown> issue-709?

   <trackbot> issue-709 -- Define an extension mechanism for WAI-ARIA -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/709

   rs: Expect discussion next week, please

   mk: Module types?

   rs: yes

   <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2015/04/29-pf-minutes#item07

   <MichaelC> šThe PFWG accepts splitting the functions so long as the spec review remains a WG function and does not move to the IGš

   <Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to ask how many people are in both COGA and ARIA TFs?

   lw: Wonders about overlap between COGA and ARIA

   rs: Not a lot, but is very important to IBM

   mc: Judy is planning an updated message to AC and will include a question about spec review participation
   ... Will be looking for satisfactory level of spec review commitments

   rs: I will join APA

   jn: Thought User Context would go to APA

   mc: Would need to go to group chartered to develop technology specs

   mk: COGA not doing spec?

   mc: Gap analysis
   ... When we did gap analysis for ARIA we determined we neede semantics to be added
   ... Still expect active coordination ongoing

   rs: Don't care so much about where things go except that we get appropriate people working on them

   <Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to ask what APA and IG stand for.

   mc: APA == Accessible Platform Architectures; IG == Interest Group

Issue-423

   <clown> issue-423?

   <trackbot> issue-423 -- Introduce a table role to be a parent of grid, but non-interactive -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/423

   jd: Recalls we were asking whether we need table roles
   ... I can't move forward until we have this answer

   mk: We were concerned we don't have table cell

   rs: Expect we want to support table functionality vs interactive grid
   ... Couple ways to achieve this
   ... use grid market plus attrib that says "not interactive"
   ... But it's frustrating if people see no difference between how we treat grid vs table
   ... So, we could solve the other way; But let's not have too many elements

   mk: Pros and cons discussion now?

   rs: sure

   mk: Concerned for AT users should we end up with multiple "flavors" of grid -- interactive false, for instance
   ... If exposed as table, the issue goes away
   ... But revealed via APIs as grid, we end up with 3 kinds of grid
   ... We have years of aclimation to tables
   ... So, what to do if author uses something other than table ml to make a table

   <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-grid

   mk: What does ua do? grid in api then is-interactive?

   rs: On ia2 and at-spi puts role of table in doc, but grid cell in object attrib

   mk: In ff on win you see grid

   <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-grid

   rs: You "hear" grid, but get role=systemtable
   ... Could drop roles win/linux; similar on mac

   jd: Should be mapped, should be to table

   mk: So if one made a table using grid, the user would see table

   rs: yes

   mk: Good. Very important

   clown: if you make a table with divs, what role?

   rs: grid; and think interactive=false
   ... So everything is noninteractive unless further overwritten somehow

   <clown> <div role="grid" aria-interacive="false"> maps to "table role".

   mk: Wonders about the other direction, table and interactive=yes

   rs: believe not possible

   <clown> <table aria-interactive="true"> maps to ?

   rs: In AAM we can kill this

   mk: Got the idea, see about 2k test cases!!

   rs: What approach is preferred

   clown: What's easiest for authoring

   mk: The aria-interactive property drives
   ... affects differently in table vs grid

   rs: OK to go with grid and not intro new table roles?

   <jamesn> +1

   rs: focus on interactive property?

   ss: grid only?

   <joanie> +1 to no new table roles

   mk: want to have that conversation, but should decide table first

   cs: Concerned about not using the word "table"

   mk: No, would show up as "table" for users

   cs: With headings, scope, etc

   mk: yes

   rs: not scope, spans ...
   ... role=grid, aria-interactive=false would be default, and that maps and is presented as "table'

   DRAFT RESOLUTION: role=grid, aria-interactive=false would be default, and that maps and is presented as "table"

   <richardschwerdtfeger> DRAFT RESOLUTION: Group will not create table, or cell roles, but rahter table will map to role=grid, aria-interactive=false as a default, and
   that maps and is presented as "table” and TD, inherits container interactivity from container

   <richardschwerdtfeger> DRAFT RESOLUTION: Group will not create table, or cell roles, but rahter table will map to role=grid, aria-interactive=false as a default, and
   that maps and is presented as "table” and TD, inherits container interactivity from container. The default for grid will aria-interactive=“true”

   <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#columnheader

   <clown> "columnheader can be used as a column header in a table or grid"

   jn: Concerned about purpose of overwriting at cell level

   mk: Maybe not necessary

   <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Group will not create table, or cell roles, but rahter table will map to role=grid, aria-interactive=false as a default, and that
   maps and is presented as "table” and TD, inherits container interactivity from container. The default for grid will aria-interactive=“true”

   <clown> issue-423

   <trackbot> issue-423 -- Introduce a table role to be a parent of grid, but non-interactive -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/423

   jd: Will review and apply good judgement on disposition ...

   <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Close issue 423

   jtopic: Issue 620

   <clown> issue-633?

   <trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633

Issue 633 !!

   <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633

   trackbot, issue-633?

   <trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633

   <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1505

   trackbot, action-535?

   <trackbot> action-535 -- James Craig to Split shared CSS into directory structure and email draft to Michael -- due 2010-11-30 -- CLOSED

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/535

   <clown> action-1505?

   <trackbot> action-1505 -- Matthew King to Create proposal for a role and strategy to address issue 633 -- due 2014-10-13 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1505

   mk: like approach from grid
   ... aria-interactive's effect on mapping
   ... good way to handle list, stac list, -- is the list interactive?
   ... An interactive span, or par

   fe: radio buttons out of span?

   mk: get radio role
   ... we have structural and also widget branches of aria ontology
   ... widgets are interactive
   ... Believe that interactive marking on structural elements should be limited, with appropriate role mappings
   ... my curent thinking ...

   fe: Interactivity determined by the role?

   mk: combination of role and state ...

   <jnurthen> which roles would accept interactive?

   <jnurthen> list, toolbar, img, group?

   <clown> compare w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-list and http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-listbox

   <jnurthen> region?

   rs: We need interactivity for graphics
   ... suggest pick specific roles, apply, and see how that works

   mk: yes

   clown: start small

   jn: asking the difference

   rs: Do we agree to limit roles initially?
   ... Do people agree to aria-interactive?

   <mattking> agree to a new property aria-interactive

   <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Create new property called aria-interactive

   fe: people will try to dynamically change

   need scotch

   mk: if we make it a state, we have to support dynamic
   ... if property then static

   fe: aria-live

   rs: yes
   ... OK with name?

   jn: trying to convey ...?
   ... that app is responsible for managing focus for widget
   ... widget, not doc

   <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#application

   mk: application provides no api mapping of applying it
   ... this could false has effect
   ... so primary question is is it state or property?

   rs: prefer property at this point

   jn: want to tie to widget

   mk: if it affects mapping, it's going to be ok

   jn: widget always does

   mk: good question

   mk interactive chart better than "chart manages focus"

   mk: don't see any name other than "author must manage focus" that solves the problem!
   ... author-provided-script==true

   <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Create new aria-interactive property for action 1505

aria-has-manage-focuse

   <clown> action-1362?

   <trackbot> action-1362 -- James Nurthen to Patch issue-640: managesfocus -- due 2015-04-02 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1362

   jn: kill it

   <clown> issue-640?

   <trackbot> issue-640 -- Investigate aria-hasmanagedfocus to indicate whether a region manages focus to enable complex widgets -- open

   <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/640

   RESOLUTION: Close issue-640 and action-1362

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Found Scribe: janina
Present: Fred_Esch janina Michael_Cooper Léonie_Watson Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs James_Nurthen Rich_Schwerdtfeger +1.650.738.aaaa Matt_King +49.322.110.8.aabb Stefan_ Schnabel [Microsoft] Cynthia
Found Date: 30 Apr 2015


-- 

Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
   sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
  Email: janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
 Indie UI   http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Received on Thursday, 30 April 2015 18:04:07 UTC