- From: Matthew King <mattking@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 08:36:07 -0800
- To: WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <OFA5EB1DE9.F58F862F-ON88257C5F.005AF91D-88257C5F.005B331E@us.ibm.com>
Draft minutes are posted at the following URL and follow my signature in
plain text.
https://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-pf-minutes.html
Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com
W3C <http://www.w3.org/>
- DRAFT -
Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
13 Jan 2014
Agenda <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jan/0006.html>
See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-pf-irc>
Attendees
Present
joanie, [Mozilla], WuWei, [IPcaller], Jon_Gunderson,
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Matt_King,
janina, marks
Regrets
Stefan_Schnabel
Chair
Rich
Scribe
mattking
Contents
* Topics <#agenda>
1. HTML 5 defects <#item01>
2. 23380 <#item02>
3. other html 5 discussion <#item03>
4. aria 1.0 CR actions and issues <#item04>
* Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
<trackbot> Date: 13 January 2014
<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> be there shortly
<clown> :-)
<scribe> scribe: mattking
HTML 5 defects
<janina> UAIG exclusion (RAND) closed 4 January
<richardschwerdtfeger>
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18574
RS: should there be a week mapping between hidden and aria-hidden
<clown> <div hidden aria-hidden="false">This content is available to
ATs</div>
RS: That is, should hidden content be available in the accessibility tree
in
<SteveF> other related bug
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23371
RS: conversely, should aria-hidden without hidden attribute keep content
out of accessibility tree
... Microsoft and Apple support weak mapping.
<clown> s/week mappting/weak mapping/
RS: If content is hidden and author puts ari-hidden=false, should the
content be exposed to the AT?
David: We have more questions than opinions at this point. If we had
very complete spec, we could have more informed opinion.
<SteveF> aria-hidden=false ONLY overrides if set on SAME element as
hidden or css display:none
David: Would keyboard behavior be effected?
RS: No, if content is not visible then you can not keyboard operate it.
Joseph: what if you had a button, wouldn' you be able to see the button
in the AT and operate it?
Steve: Yes, it would be consistent with off-screen methods.
... old off screen methods do allow you to click or keyboard operate off
screen content
... the use case is not for hiding interactive content
RS: html5 guide with mappings is not normative yet.
<SteveF> current UA support for aria-hidden/hidden
http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/hidden2013.html
<janina> UAIG 1.0 implementations call expires Friday 17 January per:
<janina>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Dec/0028.html
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2013Dec/0028.html>
JC: If we do not change aria-hidden to a week mapping to html hidden,
then aria-hidden=true does not have any meaning.
David: should we compare to aria-disabled?
RS: aria can not change the functionality of the browser
<clown> <input disabled aria-disabled="false"> ?
JC: IMO, aria-disabled and aria-required could have strong mappings to
html 5 disabled and required
<richardschwerdtfeger>
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18574
RS: today, ff already has a week mapping in the case when content is
visible and aria-hidden is true. The content is visible in accessibility
tree and the aria-hidden true is exposed as an object attribute
Joseph: haven't these always had a weak mapping?
JC: It was more like half strong and half week depending the value (true
or false)
<SteveF> http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/hidden2013.html
Steve: All screen readers except Orca hide content where
aria-hidden=true even if the content is visually rendered
<joanie> so to finish what I was going to say
<joanie> Orca + WebKit doesn't present aria-hidden:true
<joanie> because webkit doesn't expose it to orca
<joanie> if an AT is not supposed to present something, do not expose it
to the AT :)
RS: so we have the week mapping for aria-hidden=true. Now we need
agreement on aria-hidden=false.
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to state that @hidden doesn't even have a
strong mapping to visible display (CSS cascade makes it easy to
accidentally show).
RS: asking Alex and David: Do you support using aria-hidden=false to
expose visually hidden content to assistive technology?
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to state that @hidden doesn't even have a
strong mapping to visible display (CSS cascade makes it easy to
accidentally show "hidden" elements). <div hidden
<jcraig> [hidden] { display:none; }
<davidb> (there is no "important!")
JC: Currently it is possible for CSS to override html5 hidden so a
strong mapping with aria-hidden could cause visible content to not be
available in accessibility tree when it should be.
David: I think we are conditionally on board. We have concerns about
inheritance and other possible special conditions.
<richardschwerdtfeger>
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18574
Steve: can you comment on what you would like to see documented in the
bug?
<davidb> there is also
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23371
RS: David, can you update bug so we have a record of Mozilla agreement?
David: yes
<davidb> (we should reach out to google as well)
Janina: html5 down to about 10 bugs and we have this one open. We don't
want accessibility holding up html5.
Steve: Google is currently supporting the week mapping in android 31.
RESOLUTION bug 18574: solution is accepted to make semantics week and
Alex will update bug.
Steve: bug 23371 is the same as 18574 so I have made 23371 blocked. so
we do not need separate discussion.
23380
<clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23380
<richardschwerdtfeger>
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23380
<SteveF>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#sec-strong-native-semantics
<
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#sec-strong-native-semantics
>
<clown> <input disabled aria-disaled="false">
<clown> ?
Review of strong mappings.
<clown> <input aria-disabled="true">
Joseph: autocomplete should be in this table.
Steve: aria-disabled=true on an html5 element that is not disable
RS: html5 wins so that is an author error
Steve: this bug can be closed because no changes are required in the
mappings.
... is that the case? Any objections to closing the bug?
*RESOLUTION: close bug 23380*
<SteveF>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-p-element
<
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/grouping-content.html#the-p-element
>
other html 5 discussion
<SteveF>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#allowed-aria-roles
<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#allowed-aria-roles
>,-states-and-properties
Steve: I am adding allowed aria roles, states, and properties to each
html element.
RS: html 5 or 5.1?
Steve: no normative changes; all informative.
... so it could be either html5 or 5.1.
... I am asking for others to review to ehlp us ensure there are not
issues with the mappings.
<SteveF>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-article-element
<
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-article-element
>
Steve: this can raise other typs of mapping issues that should be
reviewed. For example, what should be allowed on BR.
JC: and this could be added to validator
aria 1.0 CR actions and issues
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/1
RS: Michael any progress.
Michael: not last; will happen this week.
RS: new comments?
Michael: none new.
RS: meeting next week?
general agreement, yes.
discussion of next week's agenda
Priority should be 1.0.
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/meetings/2014-01-ftf#agenda
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2014-01-13 16:32:19 $
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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
FAILED: s/week mappting/weak mapping/
Succeeded: s/week mapping/weak mapping/
Succeeded: s/aria-disabled/IMO, aria-disabled/
Succeeded: s/these always had a strong mapping/these always had a weak
mapping/
Found Scribe: mattking
Inferring ScribeNick: mattking
Default Present: joanie, [Mozilla], WuWei, [IPcaller], Jon_Gunderson,
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Matt_King, janina,
marks
Present: joanie [Mozilla] WuWei [IPcaller] Jon_Gunderson
Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Michael_Cooper Matt_King janina
marks
Regrets: Stefan_Schnabel
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Jan/0006.html
Found Date: 13 Jan 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/01/13-pf-minutes.html
People with action items:
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
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Received on Monday, 13 January 2014 16:36:41 UTC