RE: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

There may have been recent changes that I’m not aware of,
I last tested this about five months ago using Narrator in IE11/FF on Win7 and 8, with variable results.

Attached is a zip file containing all supported variations of live region, which is the same I sent to Freedom Scientific to show how JAWS isn’t working properly in IE11 with live region support.

I’m not sure if zip files are allowed on the list, so I’ve renamed the file with a .biz extension, so if you rename the attachment with a .zip extension instead, it will open.



From: Cynthia Shelly [mailto:cyns@microsoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 3:41 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa; Matthew King; Birkir Gunnarsson
Cc: 'James Nurthen'; public-pfwg@w3.org
Subject: RE: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

Interesting… We think we have liveregion support… Are there particular bugs or test cases that are failing?

From: Bryan Garaventa [mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com]
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 11:32 AM
To: Cynthia Shelly; Matthew King; Birkir Gunnarsson
Cc: 'James Nurthen'; public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>
Subject: RE: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

>I’m investigating where IE + Narrator needs work on this.

That would be great, if you could add live region support to that list, Narrator would definitely benefit with better support for this.

From: Cynthia Shelly [mailto:cyns@microsoft.com]
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2014 11:17 AM
To: Matthew King; Birkir Gunnarsson
Cc: Bryan Garaventa; 'James Nurthen'; public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>
Subject: RE: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

Matthew said
“I do agree that it could be beneficial for us to discuss AT buts that are directly related to the patterns we are working on as a group”

I would like to participate in this if possible, starting in the new year.  I’m investigating where IE + Narrator needs work on this.  Which group/meeting is working on this?  Can someone send me the logistic details?

From: Matthew King [mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 9:52 AM
To: Birkir Gunnarsson
Cc: 'Bryan Garaventa'; 'James Nurthen'; public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>
Subject: Re: ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)

Birkir,

According to the spec, you need this:

<div role=”alertdialog” aria-labelledby=”foo1” aria-describedby="foo2" instead of putting aria-describedby on the close button.

That is what I do in our apps, and it works with both JAWS and NVDA. JAWS even reads it correctly with insert+b.

I do not have teams put role="document" around foo2. That should not be necessary. And, the changes to the definition of role dialog we put in for ARIA 1.1 make that yet more clear.

I do agree that it could be beneficial for us to discuss AT buts that are directly related to the patterns we are working on as a group so AT vendors get consistent messaging. I don't see a problem with raising the discussions on the pf list.

Matt King
IBM Senior Technical Staff Member
I/T Chief Accessibility Strategist
IBM BT/CIO - Global Workforce and Web Process Enablement
Phone: (503) 578-2329, Tie line: 731-7398
mattking@us.ibm.com<mailto:mattking@us.ibm.com>



From:        "Birkir Gunnarsson" <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com<mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>>
To:        Matthew King/Fishkill/IBM@IBMUS, "'Bryan Garaventa'" <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>>,
Cc:        "'James Nurthen'" <james.nurthen@oracle.com<mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com>>, <public-pfwg@w3.org<mailto:public-pfwg@w3.org>>
Date:        12/07/2014 12:13 PM
Subject:        ARIA guide authoring practices and assistive technology bugs (alert dialog)
________________________________



Greetings everyone



Matt/James, this might be an overload if sent to the whole list, would you propose that a smaller group of us discuss individual bugs?

I know it is unrelated to the specific agenda for last week, but I have been thoroughly writing and testing a simple alert dialog.

I am not sure if I can send the specific code yet, (in any case sending it to a mailing list is hardly the way to go), but thte skeleton is:



<code>

<button>some button that displays a dialog and moves focus to the “close” button inside the dialog container</button>

<div role=”alertdialog” aria-labelledby=”foo1”>

<h2 id=”foo1”>Warning</h2>

<p id=”foo2”>The message of the alert dialog</p>

<!-- this button receives focus when dialog is displayed -->

<button id=”dialogclose”>Close</button>

</div>

</code>



Screen reader observations:

Jaws 16 with IE10 – Will not read the alert dialog text unless aria-describedby is used on the close button to connect it with the paragraph (<button aria-describedby=“foo2”>close</button>).

It reads label of dialog and the word “dialog”, then “close button” .. but not the text, unless aria-describedby is present.

Also Jaws will ignore targets of aria-describedby when its general verbosity level is set to “advanced”.

I know an issue has been filed for that, but Jaws 16 has not addressed this.



NVDA 2014.4 with FF33:

If the text of the dialog message (p with id=”foo2”> is assigned role=”document” (as recommended in the spec as I understand it), NVDA 2014.4 will not read it, neither when the dialog is displayed, nor using aria-describedby = “foo2” on the close button.

The only way to see it is to force browse mode and use arrow keys to locate the message.



If role=”document is removed from paragraph with id=”foo2” ,

NVDA will read the alert message when dialog is displayed.

If aria-describedby=”foo2” is present on the close button, it will read the message, the close button, then the message again.



I have not studied the browsers accessibility API yet.



I propose that two a.t. vendor bugs be filed (given the outcome of inspecting the browser).

Jaws:

-        Should read content of alert dialog role automatically when focus is moved into it.

NVDA

-        Should not let role=”document” disassociate the message from role=”alertdialog” and aria-describedby.



If we plan to create a repository of bugs based around our own examples, we can add these to that when the time comes, and if the bug still exists.

I expect to file these on my own, but any kind of official filing or recording by the group may encourage vendors to get things fixed.

Thanks

-Birkir