Re: copy-write question

Excellent recap of what we are proposing John, this is also my understanding as well.

Thanks
EOM
Charles LaPierre
Technical Lead, DIAGRAM and Born Accessible
Twitter: @CLaPierreA11Y
Skype: charles_lapierre


On Aug 22, 2019, at 9:41 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>> wrote:

Hi Mats,

If I may...

Our desire is to use the BCI-AV# numbers as a taxonomic reference to the definitions you have<http://www.blissymbolics.org/index.php/resources>. We will be using the numbers as attribute values in the HTML code that web authors could apply to their web-pages or applications.

So, for example, the profession of architect currently has the BCI-AV# of 12412, along with the definition of "person + to plan + building: person who designs buildings" (and the BCI_AV# of 21343 maps to the term excellent and the definition of "excellence + description indicator")

In HTML, we could then envision (and what we are proposing) code that looked like this:

<p>Joseph is a <span data-symbol="21343">excellent</span> <span data-symbol="12412">architect</span>.</p>

Helper agents or stand-alone tools would then be able to further process the code above, and overlay or otherwise re-write the page contents (in whole or in part) using symbols.
(NOTE: I am just learning about how to use Bliss symbols, and so my example my not be 100% correct syntactically, but hopefully it is illustrative enough for you to understand the proposal)

Internally, we all believe that more often than not, the symbols used by those helper applications will in fact be Bliss symbols, but we also leave open the possibility that other legacy symbol sets could map their symbols against the definitions that Bliss have provided, but then furnish their alternative symbols instead.

(My personal suspicion then is that it would be the helper applications or stand-alone tools that would be using the actual symbols, and thus *they* would need to declare the Copy-Left/Creative Commons attribution (cc-by) - we simply want to use your numbers as a stable publicly available reference.)

And so while Bliss essentially provides "4 columns" of data (number, term, definition, symbol) we are asking to use, in a normative way, the first three columns (number, term, definition) to be our taxonomy of record, and leave it to helper applications to map the numbers to appropriate symbols - whether Bliss symbols or others.

I hope this helps.

JF
--
John Foliot | Principal Accessibility Strategist | W3C AC Representative
Deque Systems - Accessibility for Good
deque.com<http://deque.com/>

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 10:55 AM Mats L <m.lundalv@gmail.com<mailto:m.lundalv@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Lisa,

I hope Russell can give you a quick and proper reply to your questions, but my guess would be that his "no" answer was to your question to the numbers being copyright restricted, rather than to whether someone could use your specification with them for "for profit" products. So probably a bit of confusion there.

If you stick to the CC-BY-SA license for the Blissymbolics lexicon resources as a whole it does not restrict usage of any kind as long as the same freedoms and restrictions are respected for derivative resources (free use + BY=attribution, and SA=Share Alike). I.e. you can not turn or directly bundle the resource into proprietary products.

Just for my understanding:
I haven't looked further at how you plan to use the numbering. The numbers in ID numbers in themselves would be meaningless, so I suppose you intend to use them with some kind of reference to the concept gloss words and definitions. Is that right? If so, how will this reference be done? Ideally such a reference should also include the so called "Derivation" for each Bliss concept, as the gloss words in themselves will quite often not be unambiguous.

Cheers,
Mats


Den tors 22 aug. 2019 kl 17:19 skrev lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com<mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com>>:
Hi Russell
What time frame do you think it will take to get a decisions if we can use the BCI numbers in the specification in keeping with the w3c patent policy at  https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy

We would need the licence to be in a stable url to be able to use it in our specification.

All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn<http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter<https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>




---- On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 19:19:32 +0300 Russell <russell@blissymbolics.org<mailto:russell@blissymbolics.org>> wrote ----

Hi Lisa,

Well, that is a question that has never been asked before! My initial reaction would be "no" but let me run it by the board just in case.

Russell

On 2019-08-20 7:03 a.m., lisa.seeman wrote:


Hi Russell

Thanks for getting back to us so quickly.

We are just talking about using the BCI reference number. Not the actual symbols.
We need people to be able to use the specification for profit applications without paying royalties.

Are the BCI numbers subject to copywrite and if so can people make a "for profit" product that uses them (such as a web page) royalty free?

All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn<http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter<https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>




---- On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 18:42:27 +0300 Russell <russell@blissymbolics.org><mailto:russell@blissymbolics.org> wrote ----

Hi Lisa,

The licensing information can be found at:

http://blissymbolics.org/index.php/licensing

If you have any further questions about it, I am currently the person to talk to. Attribution would be the only requirement, I think.

For ISO codes, there is an older ISO 8859 encoding but it is no longer used or kept up to date. A proposal for a Unicode encoding is in a very advanced stage and hopefully that will become formalized very soon. There are some technical issues with how indicators are overlaid on symbols that is holding things up a bit but I am optimistic that this obstacle will be overcome very soon. However, the new Unicode encoding will consist of Bliss-characters - ie the building blocks of the language - and thus not contain every Bliss-word but only those words that are also Bliss-characters. So for a numbering system that refers to all Bliss-words, the BCI-AV numbers are the ones to use. It is by far the most widely used indexing. As far as other possible ISO standards such as 7001 or 7010 but for complete pictographic/ideographic languages, I'm not even aware of a standard let alone Bliss being part of it.

Russell


On 2019-08-19 11:06 a.m., lisa.seeman wrote:


Hi Russell!

We are currently hoping to use BCI numbers as references options in our specification. See  #symbol-explanation<https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/#symbol-explanation>
Is there any copy-write involved? What licence would that be under and is there a web link to it?

Also do you know if any symbol sets have ISO codes?

All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn<http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter<https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>