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Re: F2F Decision: Provenance

From: Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:39:53 -0400
Message-ID: <CAFPX2kAahp4q9amtfoG6r-9=ShRsL_uYrDsCi-rz1GoLSQic1A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
Cc: Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>, public-openannotation <public-openannotation@w3.org>
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> I agree that prov:alternativeOf is slightly broader than our use case for
> oa:equivalent, but I'm not (yet) convinced that we need to revert to our
> own specialization.
>
> Is there a situation in which someone would want to use prov:alternateOf
> and it would NOT be consistent with what we want to use it for? If not,
> then I would definitely prefer to keep it.  If yes, then let's create a
> specialization.
>

Good question. I am not completely sure. I could come up with examples but
I am not sure if they translate to real use cases or of they are just
products of my twisted engineer mindset.

For example.

Annotation1 is a note "the subject of the picture is Paolo Ciccarese"
Annotation2 is the same note republished by a different provider
Annotation3 is a semantic tag http://www.hcklab.org/foaf.rdf#me

Annotation1 oa:equivalentTo Annotation2
Annotation1 prov:alternateOf Annotation3

And also, is a translation a prov:alternateOf?
Annotation4 is a note "Parlamento"
Annotation5 is a note "Parliament"
Annotation4 and Annotation5 have different provenance.

is Annotation4 prov:alternateOf  Annotation5?

In my mind oa:equivalentTo is much more constrained than prov:alternateOf

Paolo



>
> The semantics, in my opinion, are derived from the decision to conflate
> Annotation as a concept and the Document that encodes it.  Thus two
> annotation documents are the equivalent if they encode the same conceptual
> annotation, potentially with different metadata and necessarily with a
> different URI.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Dear Graham,
>> thank you for your feedback and welcome to the group!
>>
>> I am assuming
>> a prov:alternativeOf v
>> was meant to be
>> a prov:alternativeOf b
>>
>> The current definition of oa:equivalent is: The subject and object
>> resources of the oa:equivalent relationship represent the same Annotation,
>> but potentially have different metadata such as generator, generated and
>> serialization format. oa:equivalent is a symmetrical relationship; if A
>> oa:equivalent B, then it is also true that B oa:equivalent A.
>>
>> Basically it is a mechanism to allow multiple 'copies' of the same
>> annotation. Each copy identified by a different URI and can have different
>> metadata.
>>
>> Given this and given your explanation, I believe prov:alternativeOf has a
>> broader meaning than oa:equvalentTo. Maybe we can keep our original
>> property and declare it a sub-property of prove:alternativeOf?
>>
>> We would appreciate more feedback from the prov group on this matter.
>>
>> Best,
>> Paolo
>>
>> ps: we will fix prov:generatedAt
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I may be coming late to this party.  Sorry if I grab the wrong end of
>>> the stick here.  I'm a participant in the prov group, but here am speaking
>>> strictly for myself - other members of the group may disagree.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> prov:alternativeOf isn't quite the same as "equivalence", though it's
>>> possible that it's similar to ao:equivalent.  I don't know if ao:equivalent
>>> means more or less than one might expect of "equivalent".
>>>
>>> My interpetation of prov:alternativeOf is roughtly
>>>
>>> exists(c)
>>> a prov:specializationOf c
>>> b prov:specializationOf c
>>> |-
>>> a prov:alternativeOf v
>>>
>>> where
>>>
>>> a prov:specializationOf c means that the resource a is resource c
>>> constrained to some interval or context or situation.
>>>
>>> E.g. (Boston in 1776) prov:specializationOf (Boston)
>>>
>>> Following this, we might have
>>>
>>> (Boston in 1776) prov:alternativeOf (Boston in 2012)
>>>
>>> Are they equivalent?  I'd say not.  But do they in some sense refer to
>>> the same thing?  I'd say so.
>>>
>>> If that kind of semantics works for AO, then fine, but I'm suspecting it
>>> may be somewhat different to what you might expect.  It's not, for example,
>>> like the old rdf:Alternate class.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> As far as I'm aware, there is no prov:generatedAt property.  Do you mean
>>> prov:generartedAtTime?  (http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#**generatedAtTime<http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#generatedAtTime>
>>> )
>>>
>>> #g
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2012 10:39, Antoine Isaac wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I guess the lack of reaction means everyone agrees :-)
>>>>
>>>> I may have trouble the very idea of representing oa:Annotation as
>>>> direct result
>>>> of the generating, as opposed to the direct result of annotating. But
>>>> I'll
>>>> clearly need some more time to get my head around it.
>>>>
>>>> One trivial for now is replacing oa:generator with oa:generatedBy.
>>>> This makes the property seem very close to prov:wasGeneratedBy, in a
>>>> context
>>>> where OA and PROV would be used together. While they are quite
>>>> different in
>>>> reality: range of oa:generatedBy would be agent, range of
>>>> prov:wasGeneratedBy is
>>>> prov:Activity.
>>>>
>>>> Antoine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  This part of the discussion covered two primary topics related to
>>>>> provenance and the W3C Provenance Ontology.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.  Can we replace oa:equivalent with something from the Prov work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Decision:  Yes, prov:alternateOf is semantically identical to
>>>>> oa:equivalent
>>>>> Thus we'll simply replace all mentions of oa:equivalent in the
>>>>> specification with prov:alternateOf
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.  What is the relationship between the current (simple) provenance
>>>>> information recorded for an annotation, and the Prov work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Decisions:
>>>>>   - Replace oa:generated with prov:generatedAt, as they are
>>>>> semantically identical
>>>>>   - Replace oa:generator with oa:generatedBy, and subclass of
>>>>> prov:wasAttributedTo
>>>>>   - Replace oa:annotated with oa:annotatedAt (to follow the
>>>>> generatedAt pattern)
>>>>>   - Replace oa:annotator with oa:annotatedBy
>>>>>   - Include a diagram of the mapping in the specification
>>>>>
>>>>> (Diagram attached)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rob&  Paolo
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
http://www.paolociccarese.info/
Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
+1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)

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Received on Friday, 2 November 2012 15:40:20 GMT

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