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Re: Textual Note example

From: Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 13:00:12 -0400
Message-ID: <CAFPX2kAVa1vggsOkSB86q04esA0xD_bQxSN2V6pVUKvetOydBA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
Cc: Leyla Jael García Castro <leylajael@gmail.com>, Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com>, public-openannotation <public-openannotation@w3.org>
Rob,
I am starting to feel good about 1: multiple bodies (in a limited way).

I have alternates - for instance translations - I use multiple bodies.

I have a comment and a note that are meant to go together (not alternate) I
use a CompositeAnnotation.
So if the Comment and note are available in multiple languages I have a
CompositeAnnotation and each annotation has multiple bodies.

Of course it is still possible to abuse multiple bodies for
non-alternatives but the intended meaning seems clear.

Paolo



On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>wrote:

>
> The options that we've looked at in the past are:
>
> 1.  Multiple Bodies
>
> The annotation is allowed to have multiple bodies, where each body is an
> alternative in the same way as multiple Specifiers.
> Pro:  Really easy!
> Con: People will abuse multiple bodies for non-alternatives
> Mitigation: When only one body shows up, the annotator/developer may fix
> their semantics
>
> Anno oa:hasBody X ;
>     oa:hasBody Y .
>
>
> 2.  Choice
>
> A Structured Body, with a type that expresses it's a Choice between
> multiple alternatives.  There can be a default and then one or more other
> options.
> For example: http://www.shared-canvas.org/datamodel/spec/#Choice
>
> Pros:  No confusion, retains single body model, allows a default to be
> specified explicitly
> Cons: You need to understand the structured body
>
> Anno oa:hasBody uuid1 .
>
> uuid1 sc:default X ;
>   sc:option Y .
>
>
> 3.  alternate
>
> There is a single body and it has an "alternate" relationship with other
> equivalent resources.
>
> Pros:  Still single body, still a default (X) but without the structure to
> understand
> Cons:  Maybe Y is only a good alternative in this annotation but not for
> all uses of X.  The chances of collision increase significantly and you
> have to chain all the way through all alternates from X -- eg Y may also
> have an alternate Z
>
> Anno oa:hasBody X ;
> X :alternate Y .
>
>
> My order of preference at the moment is: 2, 1, 3
> However I could be swayed towards 1 if we also have CompositeAnnotation
> and get rid of hasSemanticTag as the documentation (at least) would be very
> clear as to how to achieve multiple bodies in the ALL OF sense rather than
> the ANY OF sense.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Leyla Jael García Castro <
> leylajael@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paolo, Bob, all,
>>
>>
>> We thought about the CompositeAnnotation for aggregating annotations that
>>> has been produced together - in the same context and about same time. For
>>> aggregating annotation produced at different times I would simply suggest
>>> the creation of an annotation set by ore:Aggregation
>>>
>>
>> Understood, but still I can achieve that also with a structured body
>> using an rdf:Bag as Body, am I right? So, what would be the
>> advantage/disadvantage of Composite Annotations? I like more the rdf:Bag as
>> body as it implies less triplets, and... it is maybe closer to multiple
>> bodies?
>>
>> Leyla
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Paolo Ciccarese <
>> paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I just realized that my previous message did not go through probably for
>>> the attachments.
>>> These are the links to the two figures
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/wiki/images/1/10/Possible_representation_of_Comment_in_Multiple_languages_opt1_by_Paolo_Ciccarese.png
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/wiki/images/0/01/Possible_representation_of_Comment_in_Multiple_languages_opt2_by_Paolo_Ciccarese.png
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Leyla Jael García Castro <
>>> leylajael@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Paolo,
>>>>
>>>> What about a third possibility having the only one body modelled as
>>>> rdf:Bag? That one would work fine with the current cardinality restriction
>>>> on Body and it would also tied the bodies together.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think you are talking about what we call 'structured body' or
>>> 'structured resource'
>>> http://www.openannotation.org/spec/extension/#StructuredBody
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I like the Composite approach for annotations meant to be together by
>>>> maybe done by different users at different times. For multiple related
>>>> annotations, translations for instance, done by the same user at the same
>>>> time, I prefer to use rdf:Bag in the Body. The tricky thing is that we
>>>> could end up having a Composite for translations done by different users
>>>> and rdf:Bag in the Body for translations done by the same user as a single
>>>> annotation... would that make sense?
>>>>
>>>
>>> We thought about the CompositeAnnotation for aggregating annotations
>>> that has been produced together - in the same context and about same time.
>>> For aggregating annotation produced at different times I would simply
>>> suggest the creation of an annotation set by ore:Aggregation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Paolo Ciccarese <
>>>> paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob and Layla,
>>>>> here are two examples one using CompositeAnnotation - *brainstorming*
>>>>> - and the other multiple bodies * currently not allowed *.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first is more inline with what we have now in the draft but it
>>>>> requires more triples. The second is more compact but is making use of
>>>>> multiple bodies which are not currently permitted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't picked a mechanism for specifying the language yet. I am
>>>>> open to any of the  solutions listed by Layla.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody else in the group has some thoughts on this topic or  needs to
>>>>> deal with translations?
>>>>>
>>>>> Paolo
>>>>>
>>>>> ps: I apologize for the big warnings on the figures.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Paolo Ciccarese <
>>>>> paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The CompositeAnnotation is basically supposed to be a
>>>>>> subClass of rdf:Bag or ore:Aggregation
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 7:51 AM, Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Leyla Jael García Castro
>>>>>>> <leylajael@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Hi Bob,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The range for cnt:chars is a Literal so you can use a language tag
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> > specify the language used in that particular text. Another
>>>>>>> possibility would
>>>>>>> > be dct:language property.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > As for expressing in different languages the same annotation, I
>>>>>>> guess there
>>>>>>> > are different approaches. The same body, for instance, could be
>>>>>>> applied to
>>>>>>> > multiple targets representing the same content in different
>>>>>>> languages;
>>>>>>> > another scenario as you mentioned is having the same textual body
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> > different languages, all of them applied to the same target.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > For the second scenario, having different bodies is not possible
>>>>>>> in OA, but
>>>>>>> > maybe having a List or Sequence as body would work? Each member of
>>>>>>> the list
>>>>>>> > would be then a cnt:ContextAsText with its own language and
>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>> > text.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > any thoughts?
>>>>>>> In our pending manuscript, we sort of favor the container solution
>>>>>>>  as
>>>>>>> the simplest multiplicity disambiguation.  Maybe for this rdf:Bag
>>>>>>> would be more appropriate even though, I believe, there is no formal
>>>>>>> difference from the ordered containers.   This might be more
>>>>>>> lightweight than the CompositeAnnotation Paolo suggests in parallel
>>>>>>> email. I don't know if that is good or bad.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Leyla
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 4:22 AM, Bob Morris <morris.bob@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Paolo-
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/wiki/Annotating_a_Webpage_with_a_Textual_Note
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> With the oa:Body typed as cnt:ContentAsText, is there a way to
>>>>>>> specify
>>>>>>> >> the language of the cnt:chars?  It doesn't seem that there is a
>>>>>>> way in
>>>>>>> >> cnt.  I wonder why? One might have to annotate with ContentAsXML
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> express the language, which is overkill.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> A related use case is the expression of an Annotation in several
>>>>>>> >> different languages. If forced to make them as separate
>>>>>>> Annotations,
>>>>>>> >> it would be tricky to express that they are meant all to express
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> same Textual Note.  Maybe this means that the cnt:ContentAsText
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> >> not be the type of the oa:Body, but rather of something that can
>>>>>>> hang
>>>>>>> >> on the Body without any cardinality restrictions.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Bob
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>> >> Robert A. Morris
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Emeritus Professor  of Computer Science
>>>>>>> >> UMASS-Boston
>>>>>>> >> 100 Morrissey Blvd
>>>>>>> >> Boston, MA 02125-3390
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> IT Staff
>>>>>>> >> Filtered Push Project
>>>>>>> >> Harvard University Herbaria
>>>>>>> >> Harvard University
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> email: morris.bob@gmail.com
>>>>>>> >> web: http://efg.cs.umb.edu/
>>>>>>> >> web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush
>>>>>>> >> http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram
>>>>>>> >> ===
>>>>>>> >> The content of this communication is made entirely on my
>>>>>>> >> own behalf and in no way should be deemed to express
>>>>>>> >> official positions of The University of Massachusetts at Boston or
>>>>>>> >> Harvard University.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Robert A. Morris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor  of Computer Science
>>>>>>> UMASS-Boston
>>>>>>> 100 Morrissey Blvd
>>>>>>> Boston, MA 02125-3390
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IT Staff
>>>>>>> Filtered Push Project
>>>>>>> Harvard University Herbaria
>>>>>>> Harvard University
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> email: morris.bob@gmail.com
>>>>>>> web: http://efg.cs.umb.edu/
>>>>>>> web: http://etaxonomy.org/mw/FilteredPush
>>>>>>> http://www.cs.umb.edu/~ram
>>>>>>> ===
>>>>>>> The content of this communication is made entirely on my
>>>>>>> own behalf and in no way should be deemed to express
>>>>>>> official positions of The University of Massachusetts at Boston or
>>>>>>> Harvard University.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>>>>>> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>>>>>> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>>>>>> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>>>>>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>>>>>> +1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the
>>>>>> addressee(s), may contain information that is considered
>>>>>> to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or disclosed
>>>>>> to any other party without the permission of the sender.
>>>>>> If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender
>>>>>> immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>>>>> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>>>>> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>>>>> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>>>>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>>>>> +1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)
>>>>>
>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the
>>>>> addressee(s), may contain information that is considered
>>>>> to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or disclosed
>>>>> to any other party without the permission of the sender.
>>>>> If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender
>>>>> immediately.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
>>> http://www.paolociccarese.info/
>>> Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
>>> Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
>>> Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
>>> +1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)
>>>
>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the
>>> addressee(s), may contain information that is considered
>>> to be sensitive or confidential and may not be forwarded or disclosed to
>>> any other party without the permission of the sender.
>>> If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender
>>> immediately.
>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 
Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
http://www.paolociccarese.info/
Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
+1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)

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Received on Friday, 17 August 2012 17:00:41 GMT

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