- From: Jos De Roo <josderoo@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 23:17:20 +0200
- To: Pierre-Antoine Champin <pierre-antoine.champin@ercim.eu>
- Cc: public-n3-dev@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAJbsTZc3paV8aEJB0e5vLCgJs4bCKN84vEP3-8v3C9Pw7gYJdw@mail.gmail.com>
Yes indeed Pierre-Antoine and it is also what William suggested
and what I also thought while implementing but there was an
issue with it for rules that generate rules like A => (B => C) (*)
I hope that later tonight a fix will be available :-)
Jos
(*) this is needed for Erchovian compilation like in
https://github.com/josd/eye/tree/master/reasoning/preduction
but also for some "creativity" experiments that we do in the context
of what we learned from the excellent book of Chiara Marletto
https://www.chiaramarletto.com/books/the-science-of-can-and-cant/
-- https://josd.github.io/ <http://josd.github.io/>
On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 10:42 PM Pierre-Antoine Champin <
pierre-antoine.champin@ercim.eu> wrote:
>
> On 09/06/2021 20:38, David Booth wrote:
> > On 6/9/21 8:44 AM, William Van Woensel wrote:
> >> Thanks Jos, I updated the N3 editor :-)
> >>
> >> I do have a question about these solutions:
> >>
> >> E.g.,
> >>
> >> tom a :Cat.
> >> _:e_x_1 a :Cat.
> >> :we :doubt {:tom a :Dog}.
> >> :we :doubt
> >> {<
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/b2nrBWsoaecgOIC7KXr1yViiq:k#e_x_1
> >> <
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/b2nrBWsoaecgOIC7KXr1yViiq:k#e_x_1>>
>
> >> a :Dog}.
> >>
> >> When treating the skolem-iri as a regular IRI, does this say that we
> >> doubt that the thing "_:e_x_1", which we know is a Cat, is also a dog
> >> (which is the goal, I think)?
> >>
> >> The RDF 1.1 mentions the following about skolem IRIs: "Systems may
> >> wish to mint Skolem IRIs in such a way that they can recognize the
> >> IRIs as having been introduced solely to replace blank nodes. This
> >> allows a system to map IRIs back to blank nodes if needed."
> >>
> >> In the above case, should the system know that the skolem-iri
> >> corresponds to the original blank node (and thus act accordingly)?
> >> I.e., do both terms co-refer to the same resource? ..
> >
> > I don't think that line in the RDF 1.1 Semantics means that a Skolem
> > IRI would be mappable back to the original blank node label. I always
> > interpreted it to mean simply that Skokem IRIs could be mapped back to
> > a fresh set of blank nodes.
> >
> > Even if a particular system did retain the original blank node label
> > in the Skolem IRI (to enable it to be mapped back to the original
> > blank node label), I think the system would be on very shaky ground to
> > assume that the *current* blank node label _:e_x_1 is intended to
> > refer to the *same* blank node from which the Skolem IRI was
> > originally generated. I think the situation is analogous to loading
> > two independent RDF files: the same blank node label appearing in both
> > files should not be assumed to denote the same blank node, unless you
> > have special information that clearly indicates that that is intended.
>
> +1 to what David wrote.
>
> The last line of the conclusion merely says "there is a thing (with a
> funny name) that we doubt is a Dog.
>
> That particular thing can not be traced back to being a Cat, which is
> probably missing if we intend to explain the reasoning steps:
>
> There exists a Cat
>
> hence
>
> let's pick one and name it <http...#e_x_1> (i.e.skolemization)
>
> hence
>
> <http...#e_x_1> is a Cat
>
> hence
>
> we doubt that <http...#e_x_1> is a Dog (per the rule)
>
> So I guess I would vote to add
>
> <http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/b2nrBWsoaecgOIC7KXr1yViiq:k#e_x_1>
>
> a :Cat.
>
> (in addition or in replacement of _:e_x_1 a :Cat )
>
> in EYEs conclusion for this example.
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David Booth
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> William
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2021-06-08 1:54 p.m., Jos De Roo wrote:
> >>> Ooops..
> >>> The 3rd case should have been
> >>>
> >>> $ cat test3.n3
> >>> @prefix : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>> .
> >>>
> >>> :we :doubt { _:x a :Unicorn }.
> >>> :we :doubt { :rex a :Unicorn }.
> >>>
> >>> @forAll :x.
> >>> { :we :doubt { :x a :Unicorn } } => { :we :wish { :x a :Unicorn } }.
> >>>
> >>> $ eye --quiet --nope test3.n3 --pass 2> /dev/null
> >>> PREFIX : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>>
> >>>
> >>> :we :doubt
> >>> {<
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/oiYDWzZAZyTTWrZsgJjysvBz7cY#e_x_1
> >>> <
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/oiYDWzZAZyTTWrZsgJjysvBz7cY#e_x_1>>
>
> >>> a :Unicorn}.
> >>> :we :doubt {:rex a :Unicorn}.
> >>> :we :wish
> >>> {<
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/oiYDWzZAZyTTWrZsgJjysvBz7cY#e_x_1
> >>> <
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/oiYDWzZAZyTTWrZsgJjysvBz7cY#e_x_1>>
>
> >>> a :Unicorn}.
> >>> :we :wish {:rex a :Unicorn}.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There are also some more eye corrections (esp. for rule generating
> >>> rules)
> >>> and the latest release is now
> >>> https://github.com/josd/eye/releases/tag/v21.0608.1647
> >>> <https://github.com/josd/eye/releases/tag/v21.0608.1647>
> >>>
> >>> Jos
> >>>
> >>> -- https://josd.github.io/ <http://josd.github.io/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 3:06 PM Jos De Roo <josderoo@gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:josderoo@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the constructive meeting yesterday
> >>>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A3HAUhjaVnnJ6yVbFAvIBRJQjUY9aFlQ2_bGxkD0mnE/edit
> >>> <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A3HAUhjaVnnJ6yVbFAvIBRJQjUY9aFlQ2_bGxkD0mnE/edit
> >
> >>> and ss discussed, I investigated the 3 test case
> >>> http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/s/BCjsuKDM
> >>> <http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/s/BCjsuKDM>
> >>>
> >>> http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/s/c3BNl6HQ
> >>> <http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/s/c3BNl6HQ>
> >>>
> >>> http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/s/36y4Kyvc
> >>> <http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/s/36y4Kyvc>
> >>>
> >>> and made corrections in the latest eye release
> >>> https://github.com/josd/eye/releases/tag/v21.0608.1236
> >>> <https://github.com/josd/eye/releases/tag/v21.0608.1236>
> >>>
> >>> In detail, the answers are now as follows:
> >>>
> >>> $ cat test1.n3
> >>> Prefix : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>>
> >>>
> >>> :tom a :Cat.
> >>> _:x a :Cat.
> >>>
> >>> {?x a :Cat}=>{:we :doubt {?x a :Dog}}.
> >>>
> >>> $ eye --quiet --nope test1.n3 --pass 2> /dev/null
> >>> PREFIX : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>>
> >>>
> >>> :tom a :Cat.
> >>> _:e_x_1 a :Cat.
> >>> :we :doubt {:tom a :Dog}.
> >>> :we :doubt
> >>> {<
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/b2nrBWsoaecgOIC7KXr1yViiq:k#e_x_1
> >>> <
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/b2nrBWsoaecgOIC7KXr1yViiq:k#e_x_1
> >>
> >>> a :Dog}.
> >>>
> >>> $ cat test2.n3
> >>> @prefix : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>> .
> >>>
> >>> :we :doubt { _:x a :Unicorn }.
> >>> :we :doubt { :rex a :Unicorn }.
> >>>
> >>> @forAll :x.
> >>> { :we :doubt { :x a :Unicorn } } => { :we :like :x }.
> >>>
> >>> $ eye --quiet --nope test2.n3 --pass 2> /dev/null
> >>> PREFIX : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>>
> >>>
> >>> :we :doubt
> >>> {<
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/Cq1oCASTEiQwLTKPixnecepqJCg#e_x_1
> >>> <
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/Cq1oCASTEiQwLTKPixnecepqJCg#e_x_1
> >>
> >>> a :Unicorn}.
> >>> :we :doubt {:rex a :Unicorn}.
> >>> :we :like _:e_x_1.
> >>> :we :like :rex.
> >>>
> >>> $ cat test3.n3
> >>> @prefix : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>> .
> >>>
> >>> :we :doubt { _:x a :Unicorn }.
> >>> :we :doubt { :rex a :Unicorn }.
> >>>
> >>> @forAll :x.
> >>> { :we :doubt { :x a :Unicorn } } => { :we :like :x }.
> >>>
> >>> $ eye --quiet --nope test3.n3 --pass 2> /dev/null
> >>> PREFIX : <https://example.org/ns/example#
> >>> <https://example.org/ns/example#>>
> >>>
> >>> :we :doubt
> >>> {<
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/3qFbvxHHHzcCfeYYMoDVFV79S5g#e_x_1
> >>> <
> http://josd.github.io/.well-known/genid/3qFbvxHHHzcCfeYYMoDVFV79S5g#e_x_1
> >>
> >>> a :Unicorn}.
> >>> :we :doubt {:rex a :Unicorn}.
> >>> :we :like _:e_x_1.
> >>> :we :like :rex.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> PS William, if fine, could you install the latest eye
> >>> https://github.com/josd/eye/releases/tag/v21.0608.1236
> >>> <https://github.com/josd/eye/releases/tag/v21.0608.1236>
> >>> at http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/
> >>> <http://ppr.cs.dal.ca:3002/n3/editor/>
> >>> and BTw thanks for such a nice tool, it's really nice and useful!
> >>>
> >>> -- https://josd.github.io/ <http://josd.github.io/>
> >>>
> >
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 9 June 2021 21:17:58 UTC