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[minutes] January 27 teleconf

From: Dominique Hazael-Massieux <dom@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:45:01 +0100
To: public-mwts@w3.org
Message-Id: <1233074701.6592.844.camel@localhost>

Hi,

The minutes of our call today are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html
linked from
http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/Tests/
and copied as text below.

Dom


                MWI Test Suites Working Group teleconf

27 Jan 2009

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2009Jan/0020.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Carmelo, Wilhelm, dom, Kai, dmitri

   Regrets
   Chair
          Wilhelm

   Scribe
          dom

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Widgets testing
         2. [6]Device independent testing guidelines
         3. [7]Memory Test
         4. [8]Web Compatibility Test
         5. [9]Blog
         6. [10]Agreement on test suites with OMA
         7. [11]Rechartering
         8. [12]Report from AWTA 2009
         9. [13]Next meeting
     * [14]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <Carmelo> Carmelo is here

Widgets testing

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to continue integrating his tests WTF [recorded
   in [15]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html#action02

   Kai: still pending; would be good to get help from Robert

   Wilhelm: I'll make sure he follows up

   <dom_scribe> [16]request to review testability of spec

     [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2009Jan/0018.html

   dom: they're asking for review/help on testability of the spec

   kai: spent quite a bit of time with Marcos working with him on the
   specs and tests
   ... I think he's happy now - a bit concerned on the (un)stability of
   the spec, though.

   wilhelm: any specific further action needed from us?

   kai: nothing specific, just keep doing our work

Device independent testing guidelines

   <scribe> ACTION: Dmitri to review the DI guidelines [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action04] [DONE]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action04

   <dom_scribe> [18]Dmitri's comments

     [18] http://www.w3.org/mid/496CBD09.8020704@sun.com

   Dmitri: dom sent a reply to my comments, and asked for specific
   contributions
   ... I'll work on it this week

   <scribe> ACTION: Dmitri to make a proposal on dividing guidelines
   per test components [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: Dom to review the di guidelines [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action09

   <dom_scribe> [21]Dom's new version of guidelines

     [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2009Jan/0021.html

   <dom_scribe> [22]New version of the guidelines

     [22] http://dev.w3.org/2008/dev-ind-testing/guidelines.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Wilhelm to review new version of guidelines
   [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action05]

   <scribe> ACTION: Carmelo to review new version of guidelines
   [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action06]

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to review new version of guidelines [recorded
   in [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action07]

Memory Test

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to implement binary search tree to determin
   limits of memory test [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action06

   <dom_scribe> [27]Kai's announcement of implementation

     [27] http://www.w3.org/mid/b24851260901250841n3221c193p466cb30f6785ccb5@mail.gmail.com

   <dom_scribe> [28]Memory test

     [28] http://static.webvm.net/json

   Wilhelm: how I should run it? How do I know if I'm getting the
   proper results?

   Kai: it starts with the highest test; if that doesn't work, you go
   to lowest
   ... and then you go to middle steps
   ... one pb is that if you start too high, you may crash the browser
   ... on my nokia device, I tried that, crashed the browser, and the
   memory wasn't cleared

   <Zakim> dom, you wanted to ask what 'what doesn't work' mean?

   Kai: when it works, it gives you a message "server limit exceeded"
   or something like that
   ... user agents with good memory capabilities can reach that
   ... it's roughly for 2 Mo of data

   Dom: maybe we could have something more user friendly than "server
   limit exceeded" :) ?
   ... if we want to further advertise that test

   Kai: could this be brought to another server to reduce the load on
   my server?

   <scribe> ACTION: Dom to check if we can host the memory test on a
   W3C server [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action09]

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to make success message in memory test more
   userfriendly [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action10]

   Kai: currently the generation of the data is kind of intensive

   Dom: why is it generated on the fly?

   Kai: it was the easiest way of doing it :)
   ... I could probably be doing it more efficiently
   ... but in any case, this is likely to create load on whatever
   server hosts it
   ... code is written in shell, should be fairly easy to read
   ... Apprently, IE Mobile can't go over 1MB

   <scribe> ACTION: Dom to run the memory test on his devices [recorded
   in [31]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action08]
   [PENDING]

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action08

   <scribe> ACTION: Wilhelm to run the memory test on his devices
   [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING]

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action07

Web Compatibility Test

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to look into creating test cases for SSL and
   certificates support on mobile [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action09]
   [PENDING]

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action09

   Kai: I think I might have given up on this - it is really difficult
   to come up with something
   ... I would really like to make sure user agents allow to see
   trusted roots

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to look into creating test cases for SSL and
   certificates support on mobile [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action09]
   [DROPPED]

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action09

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to push forward with finding a replacement for
   the inputmode test [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action07

   Kai: no progress on my side

   <scribe> ACTION: WIhelm to look into replacement for inputmode test
   [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING]

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action05

   Wilhelm: a couple of possible interested areas:
   ... javascript timers - I'm writing a spec and tests around them

   <wilhelm> [37]http://people.opera.com/wilhelmja/timers/tests/

     [37] http://people.opera.com/wilhelmja/timers/tests/

   Kai: is there any problem with timers?

   Wilhelm: sometimes they're inaccurate, sometimes they don't work

   <wilhelm> Notes:
   [38]http://people.opera.com/wilhelmja/timers/data.html

     [38] http://people.opera.com/wilhelmja/timers/data.html

   Wilhelm: another idea would be MathML through CSS
   ... not sure if that can be done with red/green square
   ... I'm also going through the DOM specs to see if I can find
   something interesting there

   Kai: I'll look in the timers stuff myself

   Wilhelm: there is no spec for it yet

   Kai: no spec from ECMAscript on this?

   Wilhelm: nope; only ancient documentation from mozilla, and some
   stuff in html5

   Kai: isn't MathML an XML-namespaced thing?

   Wilhelm: it is, but the CSS profile for it is significantly simpler

Blog

   <dom_scribe> [39]What's measured improves, by Kai

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/Tests/blog/2009/01/19/what_s_measured_improves_1

   Wilhelm: what should be our next post?

   Kai: maybe talking about our search for a new test?

   Wilhelm: sounds good

   <scribe> ACTION: Kai to prepare a blog post [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action17]

   Dom: Paul Nelson left a comment on the HTTPS test

   <scribe> ACTION: Wilhelm to follow up on the blog comment re HTTPS
   [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action18]

Agreement on test suites with OMA

   <scribe> ACTION: Wilhem to send Opera's feedback on OMA test suites
   [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action16]
   [PENDING]

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action16

   <scribe> ACTION: Dom to look back at OMA situation and report
   [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action15]
   [PENDING]

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action15

Rechartering

   Carmelo: will follow-up on NIST re-joining

Report from AWTA 2009

   <dom_scribe> [44]AWTA 2009

     [44] http://awta.wikispaces.com/AWTA+2009

   Wilhelm: small but active conference, with 25 participants
   ... around the Watir framework that can be used to automate browser
   testing
   ... originally built for IE around COM components
   ... can be used to make browsers do anything
   ... various people are working on extending this to other browsers
   ... we made a presentation on our Opera implementation
   ... can be done on any opera device
   ... it's made for being used over the wire
   ... There was discussions on the different frameworks used
   ... and how web applications testers did their testing
   ... I think it's an important community to keep an eye on
   ... cross-browsers support for this could permit automate testing
   for web standards conformance

   dom: were there other browser vendors?

   Wilhelm: nope, but someone has implemented it for Safari through
   Applescript
   ... I think there is official support from the Chrome Team

   Dom: any opportunity for getting other browsers to join that effort?

   Wilhelm: no official support for IE, but it "just works"
   ... the firewatir implementation for firefox is not officially
   supported by Mozilla, but the extension mechanism allows to do it
   fairly simply

   dom: but is there any need to help there, or is just a matter of
   letting the community provide whatever is needed?

   wilhelm: running code is mostly what's needed at this point
   ... getting browser vendors to support this officially would be
   great, but isn't strictly required

   kai: was there any talk about pocket IE?

   Wilhelm: no, it wasn't
   ... not sure what APIs they expose

   Kai: I think it should be easy

   Wilhelm: our implementations has 3 parts: the opera binary, to which
   you can communicate through a documented protocol, a proxy that
   connects to the binary, and tests scripts based
   ... we're adding support for Watir in our tests scripts

   <dom_scribe> [45]Automated testing that doesn’t hurt

     [45] http://wtr.rubyforge.org/

   <wilhelm>
   [46]http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/opera-dragonfly-architecture/

     [46] http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/opera-dragonfly-architecture/

   Kai: support for Watir needs to be added in Opera binary?

   Wilhelm: some can be added through javascript; some require new APIs
   in the binary, which we are adding

Next meeting

   Next week (Feb 3rd)

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Carmelo to review new version of guidelines [recorded
   in [47]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Dmitri to make a proposal on dividing guidelines per
   test components [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Dom to check if we can host the memory test on a W3C
   server [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action09]
   [NEW] ACTION: Kai to make success message in memory test more
   userfriendly [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action10]
   [NEW] ACTION: Kai to prepare a blog post [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action17]
   [NEW] ACTION: Kai to review new version of guidelines [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Wilhelm to follow up on the blog comment re HTTPS
   [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action18]
   [NEW] ACTION: Wilhelm to review new version of guidelines [recorded
   in [54]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/27-mwts-minutes.html#action05]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Dom to look back at OMA situation and report
   [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action15]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Dom to run the memory test on his devices
   [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action08]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Kai to continue integrating his tests WTF
   [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Kai to push forward with finding a replacement for
   the inputmode test [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: WIhelm to look into replacement for inputmode test
   [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Wilhelm to run the memory test on his devices
   [recorded in
   [60]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Wilhem to send Opera's feedback on OMA test suites
   [recorded in
   [61]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action16]

     [55] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action15
     [56] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action08
     [57] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/02-mwts-minutes.html#action02
     [58] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action07
     [59] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action05
     [60] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/06-mwts-minutes.html#action07
     [61] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action16

   [DONE] ACTION: Dmitri to review the DI guidelines [recorded in
   [62]http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action04]
   [DONE] ACTION: Dom to review the di guidelines [recorded in
   [63]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action09]
   [DONE] ACTION: Kai to implement binary search tree to determin
   limits of memory test [recorded in
   [64]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action06]

     [62] http://www.w3.org/2008/12/16-mwts-minutes.html#action04
     [63] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mwts-minutes.html#action09
     [64] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action06

   [DROPPED] ACTION: Kai to look into creating test cases for SSL and
   certificates support on mobile [recorded in
   [65]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action09]

     [65] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/13-mwts-minutes.html#action09

   [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 27 January 2009 16:45:59 GMT

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