- From: Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz>
- Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:15:10 +0100
- To: Karl Fritsche <karl.fritsche@cocomore.com>
- CC: Yves Savourel <ysavourel@enlaso.com>, public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
- Message-ID: <5149E08E.3000601@kosek.cz>
On 20.3.2013 16:13, Karl Fritsche wrote:
> I couldn't find the discussion on the HTML5 list about the changes,
> because I wanted to lookup, why the added the style attribute as
> translatable. The other attributes would be fine with me and are mor or
> less the same, we had in our list too.
It's sometimes hard to track source of changes as not everything happens
on mailing list or bugzilla. In this case I think that reason could be
CSS content property which can contain natural language text.
> The major mismatch between what we had in the wiki before and what is
> the HTML5 default, is that script, style and del are translatable
> elements by default. While there was some discussion about having del
> element translatable, no one in our group disagreed about having script
> and style elements not translatable. Maybe the HTML group didn't wanted
> to have to many exceptions.
As for Javascript there is no standard way how to deal with
localization, source code usually contains text strings. This might be
reason why <script> is translateable.
> But I think we should have the same defaults like the HTML, otherwise
> you could parse the translate attribute as ITS or as HTML attribute, but
> than it would be more clearer to use its-translate.
Yes, for HTML part of ITS we should align with HTML5 spec or if they are
wrong convince them to fix HTML5 spec.
> While for these defaults could be generated rules, there is still the
> different behavior of the translate attribute. All translatable
> attributes are translate="yes" by default in HTML, while in ITS its
> "no". Also the only possibility in HTML5 to change translatable
> attributes to "no", would be to at the element or parent element the
> attribute translate="no". In ITS we say that the translate attribute
> only influence elements, not attributes.
We say this about general translate data category. But we can change
rules for HTML binding of translate category.
> Even with all these "problems", we should first decide how we want to go
> forward with the HTML5 Defaults. If we want to use this only to generate
> a global ruleset for a best practice document, then we could ignore all
> these problems and say that you can parse a document in the ITS way or
> in the HTML way. For this case I'm in favor to use another attribute
> like its-translate to make this clear for everybody.
We shouldn't introduce its-translate if there is translate already in
HTML. If we think that HTML translate attribute is broken, we should ask
for fixing. But having two almost same attributes doesn't makes any sense.
> If we want to add these defaults as a normative section, we need to
> think about how to deal with the different behavior, because otherwise a
> translator don't know if he should use the ITS or the HTML way. One
> possibility would be to use the HTML way, but then the behavior for only
> this attribute only on HTML would be completely different to the rest of
> the ITS. Which is even more confusing, I think.
I don't think it's confusing. Current HTML5 behaviour can be easily
described by rules so I think that HTML5 model fits ITS.
> A possible solution would be to add a its-translate-mode attribute for
> the <html>-element, where the content creator can select if he wants to
> use the HTML or the ITS behavior. This would have a major impact on all
> implementors, because they have to implement both ways. With this every
> body can choose their way, how to handle this.
Please lets not make this more complex then it has to be.
> That said, I'm still in favor of having these defaults as a normative
> section, even with the cutback to handle ITS in HTML differently than in
> XML.
It wouldn't be wise to have rules normative as HTML5.1 is still moving
target.
Jirka
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Received on Wednesday, 20 March 2013 16:15:40 UTC