W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org > June 2013

Re: Update to MQM documentation and one question

From: Dave Lewis <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 17:10:45 +0100
Message-ID: <51CF0705.5090702@cs.tcd.ie>
To: Arle Lommel <arle.lommel@dfki.de>
CC: Christian Lieske <christian.lieske@sap.com>, public-i18n-its-ig@w3.org, Multilingual Web LT Public List Public List <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>, Aljoscha Burchardt <aljoscha.burchardt@dfki.de>, Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@googlemail.com>
Hi Arle,

On 28/06/2013 15:11, Arle Lommel wrote:
> Sorry for not responding sooner. I was out for a few days.
> Actually, in thinking about your solution #3, since MQM doesn't define 
> one metric, but rather a method for defining metrics, we could do 
> something like this:
>     <span its:locQualityIssueType="terminology"
>     its:locQualityIssueComment="should be &quot;blech&quot;"
>     its:locQualityIssueProfileRef="xxx.xx/bobs-metric.mqm#Monolingual_terminology"
>     >blah</span>
> (Here we know that the the ITS 2.0 type is "terminology" and the MQM 
> type is "Monolingual terminology", so the mapping is contained in the 
> markup. It doesn't define the normative mapping, but rather the actual 
> mapping, which I think is more useful.
> In this case the ProfileRef would contain something describing the 
> metric used for the task, with an anchored pointer to the specific 
> issue in that description. If we take this approach we could dispense 
> with having any proprietary inline markup at all for MQM and just use 
> ITS markup, in which case MQM becomes an implementation of ITS 2.0 and 
> the problematic relationship Felix was worried about goes away. But by 
> pushing the complexity to the ProfileRef, MQM can still do everything 
> it needs to.

This makes a lot of sense. I'd support this approach.

So is it this case the current mappings from ITS LQI types to MQM types 
would be purely informative and not really a best practice 
recommendation right?

This is because, as i now understand it, people should be free for 
example to use MQM mistranslation with ITS LQI terminology as long as 
they provided a description of this usage that LQI profile ref can point 

> In this case the URL would not point to the mapping (which is of 
> limited value since we've already declared that "terminology" is the 
> ITS 2.0 mapping in this markup), but rather to the description of the 
> actual metric in use.
> This doesn't address the need for overlapping or noncontiguous spans, 
> but taking this approach separates that need from the need to point to 
> MQM issue types. It also doesn't address how the system is supposed to 
> understand what xxx.xx/bobs-metric.mqm is supposed to contain as a 
> description, but that is a problem for MQM, not ITS.

I've not considered the overlapping/non-contiguous issue in any depth, 
but my gut feeling is that this isn't something ITS can solve, but is 
there anything in the XLIFF inline mark-up work that could help? Or 
perhaps TEI? Aligning/stealing from an existing standard is  preferable 
to a new solution in this edge case.

Concerning the description, I don't know if any partner implementing LQI 
would be interesting in defining their use of it in terms of MQM in a 
public page as a reference example? Phil, Pedro?

> Are you around next week? It might be good to have a conversation 
> about this with those who are interested. There are enough 
> implications that I want to ensure that we do The Right Thing™.

We could allocate some time on the wednesday ITS WG/IG call to this - 
would that work?


> -Arle
> On 2013 Jun 29, at 15:19 , Dave Lewis <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie 
> <mailto:dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>> wrote:
>> On 26/06/2013 07:38, Lieske, Christian wrote:
>>> Furthermore, a comment about granularity and losslessness might be cool (for all columns, not just MQM). Example: The MQM categories for terminology are more granular than the ones of ITS. Thus, going from MQM to ITS always results in a loss of information. This to a certain degree can for example be mitigated by using the its:locQualityIssueComment as follows its:locQualityIssueComment="MQM original value was 'X'".
>> Hi Christian, Arle, others,
>> Using the its:locQualityIssueComment to help process the mapping is I 
>> think a good practical idea.
>> But could we do this in a more structured way to support the 
>> automated processing by tools that implement (i.e. generate and 
>> consume) the mapping in ITS?
>> For example we could offer best practice to reference with a URL 
>> identifying the type of the non-ITS QA issue, MQM specifically in 
>> this case. We could manage this via identifiers of the mapping via 
>> URLs at the ITS IG wiki, e.g.:
>> http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/LQItoMQM#terminology-Accuracy.Terminology  <http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Localization_quality_types_mappings>
>> I've put an example page up (we could have similar ones for other 
>> mapping).
>> We would need then to specify best practice in how to reference this 
>> from some LQI annotation. Possibilities I could think of were:
>> 1) Reference the type level mapping URL from locQualityIssueProfileRef
>> e.g. <span its:locQualityIssueType="terminology"
>>                   its:locQualityIssueComment="bad term"
>>                   its:locQualityIssueProfileRef=
>> "http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/LQItoMQM#terminologyAccuracy.Terminology">blah</span>
>> pros: a (sort of) natural use of locQualityIssueProfileRef
>> cons: the dereference document (in this case a fragment) would need 
>> to include a reference to the actual QA model, ie. MQM - though that 
>> makes sense anyway. Arle this would need MQM document fragment URLs 
>> for each type, again a good diea anyway.
>> 2) reference the mapping page from locQualityIssueProfileRef and use 
>> a prefix to the value of  locQualityIssueComment with a space 
>> separating the start of any actual comment text.
>> e.g. <span its:locQualityIssueType="terminology"
>> its:locQualityIssueComment="terminologyAccuracy.Terminology bad term"
>>                   its:locQualityIssueProfileRef=
>> "http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/LQItoMQM#">blah</span>
>> cons: need some intelligence to parse comment to understand it 
>> contains a mapping reference
>> 3) put the whole URL to the type mapping as a prefix of the value of 
>> locQualityIssueComment
>> e.g. <span its:locQualityIssueType="terminology"
>> its:locQualityIssueComment="http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/LQItoMQM#terminologyAccuracy.Terminology 
>> bad term"
>> pros: doesn't require use of locQualityIssueProfileRef, which may 
>> anyway be superfluous if only one profile used in the document, or 
>> allows the MQM doc to be ferferenced directly. Also the parsing of 
>> the reference from the comment is a bit more straightforward, though 
>> the processor still needs to be 'mapping aware'
>> So my own preference amongst these would be for (3), but there may be 
>> other better ways to do this.
>> any thoughts?
>> cheers,
>> Dave
Received on Friday, 28 June 2013 16:05:25 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:08:32 UTC