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Fwd: Re: [Minutes] MLW-LT call 2012-12-17 and further info / questions

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 22:29:38 +0200
Message-ID: <51CB4F32.5070404@w3.org>
To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
Forwarded for archiving.

- Felix


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: 	Re: [Minutes] MLW-LT call 2012-12-17 and further info / questions
Datum: 	Wed, 19 Dec 2012 20:07:03 +0000
Von: 	Naoto Nishio <naoto.jp@gmail.com>
An: 	Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Kopie (CC): 	public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org 
<public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>



Hi Felix,

Yes, close the issue-61, please. I apologise my late reply.

Kind regards,
Naoto

- Naoto, are you OK with closing issue-61 saying that this will be 
handled during the sec 1-2 work from Christian (see action-377) and others?

On 17 December 2012 18:06, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org 
<mailto:fsasaki@w3.org>> wrote:

    Hi all,

    the minutes of today's call are at
    http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html
    and below as text. As usual some things highlighted below:

    - I went through
    https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open?sort=due
    and tried to make a reasonable timing for action items; let the
    co-chairs know if something doesn't work time wise.
    Esp. the action item owners for EC project report information: if
    not done yet please send the info to Arle. Arle and I will go
    through your input this week and need it asap.

    - We closed issue-58, issue-59, issue-60 and issue-62 on the call,
    see latest state of last call comments at
    http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling

    - Naoto, are you OK with closing issue-61 saying that this will be
    handled during the sec 1-2 work from Christian (see action-377) and
    others?

    - We are close to have a complete M2; on Tuesday Dom will send out
    reminder mails to items still missing.

    - I will issue a call for additional, partially manual test cases
    needed by the rfc 2119 statements, see action-374

    - Pedro had a question on how to provide comments on the last call
    draft. You may point people to this mail
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html
    and the "status of this document" section at
    http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#status
    for more guidance


    Best,

    Felix


        [1]W3C

           [1]http://www.w3.org/

                                    - DRAFT -

                                    MLW-LT WG

    17 Dec 2012

        [2]Agenda

           [2]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0075.html

        See also: [3]IRC log

           [3]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-irc

    Attendees

        Present
               Arle, felix, kfritsche, ankit, georgios, DomJones,
               daveL, olaf-michael, tadej, naoto, shaun, leroy, daveL,
               yves, petasis, jirka, mauricio, clemens, mdelolmo,
               omstefanov, philr, pnietoca, Milan, Des, Pedro, chriLi

        Regrets
               jörg, Mārcis, davidF

        Chair
               felix

        Scribe
               daveL, fsasaki

    Contents

          * [4]Topics
              1. [5]roll call
              2. [6]Test suite and milestone update
              3. [7]Yves' proposal to compile test results
              4. [8]Need to clarify domain handling of dublicates
              5. [9]Contacts for LC
              6. [10]Last call issues
              7. [11]issue-63
              8. [12]best practices and sec. 1-2 update
              9. [13]Prague f2f and next year planning
             10. [14]EU project action items
          * [15]Summary of Action Items
          __________________________________________________________

    roll call

        <fsasaki> checking attendance ...

        <fsasaki> agenda here
        [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt/2012Dec/0075.html

          [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0075.html

    Test suite and milestone update

        <fsasaki>
        [17]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG
        5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0

          [17]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0

        felix: today was deadline for test milestone M2, to have each
        partners attempted at least one of each type of feature test
        they are planning

        <DomJones1> q

        felix: thanks for everyone on working to progress in advancing
        to the test suite

        dom: show screen with progress spread sheet
        ... reviews status, noting there are some short delays which
        have been agreed
        ... des and tidle have delays and need a revised M2 date to be
        agreed with co-chairs
        ... ruby being done in TCD, seems OK
        ... milan has delay, tadej has a delay
        ... need to discuss local filter with DCU
        ... prov test is still shakey, leroy is checking
        ... logrus with locqualissue need to be resolved
        ... mt confidence OK
        ... cocomore need to complete allowed char
        ... overall happy that progress is good, but need to
        communicate with outstanding tests tomorrow.

        Felix; agree, keep cochair posted

        Dom: highlighted that the complete test deadline in end Jan, so
        really not far off

        felix: we should allocate plenty of time at prague meeting for
        test suite

        dom: also note at march EU review we should have 80%
        conformance in actual implementations

        felix: as yves pointed out, should have some way of comparing
        results on web site

        <pnietoca> sorry my microphone is not not working again, I'll
        try to use Mauricio's

        dom: for M2 and M3 we need people to perform their own check,
        but we will need to put up all the outputs and do
        authoritative, verifiable test

        felix: online test would be really good

        leroy; we can provide online test

        dom: so we will deliver in new year

        <scribe> ACTION: leroy to provide online diff service so posted
        output can be checked [recorded in
        [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

        <trackbot> Created ACTION-373 - Provide online diff service so
        posted output can be checked [on Leroy Finn - due 2012-12-24].

        Dom: Dom and Leroy will be unavailable for two weeks over
        chirstmas

        <DomJones1> Dom and Leroy away from 22nd December to the 7th of
        January

    Yves' proposal to compile test results

        <fsasaki>
        [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt-tests/2012Dec/0097.html

          [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Dec/0097.html

        yves: idea is that final test page was generated automatically
        for ITS1.0, so that would be good for 2.0

        <fsasaki> [20]http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/

          [20]http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/

        yves: i will look at this over holidays

        dom: does this just diff the input and output?

        felix; yes it just compared files and provide a green flag if
        it works

        scribe: so this could be done with the diff service mentioned
        earlier as a batch over all current test input files and
        submitted output files

        Dom; we will look at this as part of last action itme

    Need to clarify domain handling of dublicates

        <fsasaki>
        [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt-tests/2012Dec/0128.html

          [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Dec/0128.html

        yves: during testing looked at wider coverage of domain test,
        with different capitalisations
        ... should these be different tests?

        mdelolmo: not sure this makes a difference in terms of use
        cases, but no problem having duplicate files

        yves: resolution to keep tests with and without capitalisation
        ... there are these test cases, and some others missing from
        coverage.
        ... should we just let Leroy know?

        Leroy: just let me know once the test input is done, and i will
        update the parser

        <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki

        daveL: are we still missing test cases with the MUST
        statements?

        <scribe> scribe: daveL

        <fsasaki>
        [22]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Own
        ership_of_rfc2119_statements

          [22]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ownership_of_rfc2119_statements

        felix: many of these tests still need to be added, e.g. with
        annotation and locqualissue
        ... so we definitely need these tests
        ... and people need to make sure they allocate implementer time
        for these in Jan and feb

        phil: has a look at locqulissue one, and found useful doc on
        tests for MUSTs
        ... but it was difficult to see how manual tests could be
        formulates

        action; felix to distribute action items to define these tests
        and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests
        against rcf2119 table

        <scribe> ACTION: felix to distribute action items to define
        these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these
        tests against rcf2119 table [recorded in
        [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

        <trackbot> Created ACTION-374 - Distribute action items to
        define these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate
        these tests against rcf2119 table [on Felix Sasaki - due
        2012-12-24].

    Contacts for LC

        <fsasaki>
        [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt/2012Dec/0071.html

          [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0071.html

        felix: thanks for finding people to contact
        ... but we won't share lists since some contacts are
        confidential
        ... asks Yves to handle LC reviews to OKAPI community

        Yves: agrees

        Felix: asloXTM

        dave: I will handle this with andy zydron

        felix; will des lead contact with systrans

        des: agrees

        felix: please let neives know if you receive specific
        committments to review

        <fsasaki>
        [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt/2012Dec/0025.html

          [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html

        des: is there a proforma for requesting

        felix: posts proforma, and arle did some also.
        ... david was doing a more business oriented one, but is off
        ill

        pedro: will nieves contact people directly?

        felix; nieves will NOT contact there people, only tracking who
        we are contacting

        <fsasaki>
        [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt/2012Dec/0025.html

          [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html

        scribe: the best if people contact them directly.

        felix: I'm happy to contact the specific people whose details
        pedro provided

        pedro: had contacted them already, but they just need the
        details of how to submit

        felix: the email pasted above, has details of email address
        where to send comments

    Last call issues

        <fsasaki> [27]http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling

          [27]http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling

        felix: these issues raised already by people within the WG
        ... issue-58, an example to be fixed in a version value

        <fsasaki>
        [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt/2012Dec/0060.html

          [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0060.html

        felix: issues-59, a sentence about pointing and adding,
        resolved by clarifying a sentence circumstance when it is
        mutually exclusive
        ... in two section as per above emial

        <fsasaki>
        [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt-comments/2012Dec/0022.html

          [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0022.html

        <fsasaki>
        [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt-comments/2012Dec/0031.html

          [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0031.html

        felix: issue-60 loc qual type, with resolution as per above
        email -which didn't require new type

        <fsasaki>
        [31]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
        ts20/its20.html#lqissue-typevalues >

          [31]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqissue-typevalues

        felix: jorg followed up with clarification for labelling of the
        type value table
        ... which is now changed.

        <fsasaki>
        [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt-comments/2012Dec/0025.html

          [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0025.html

        felix: issue-62 standoff markup for global rules

        <fsasaki>
        [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt-comments/2012Dec/att-0025/global-lqissue-clarification.pdf

          [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/att-0025/global-lqissue-clarification.pdf

        <fsasaki>
        [34]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#lqissue-implem
        entation

          [34]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#lqissue-implementation

        felix: could use standoff and global attributes, which doesn't
        make sense since this isn't the case for local
        ... this has now been changed in the schema, though it didn't
        need a change to the examples
        ... any further question on these, or can they be closed?

        <fsasaki> 58, 59, 60, 62

        No objections

        felix: issue-63 on loc qual type conformance

    issue-63

        <fsasaki>
        [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt-comments/2012Dec/0030.html

          [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0030.html

        phil: on this, in cngl we worked on some automated linguistic
        target qa, based on comparison to reference corpus
        ... so it is different to the distinct techniques for specific
        errors as per other types
        ... conformance is a term that gives a numeric value to compare
        target against a reference corpus
        ... so it may be useful to have

        yves: how is this different to loc quality rating?

        phil: rating is more formulaic way of computing a rating from
        other issues, whereas the conformance quality is very useful at
        segment level

        yves: where would the value go, in the severity

        phil; yes

        felix: would like to delay the decision unitl after chistma

        <scribe> ACTION: felix to raise issue-63 again in the 7th jan
        call [recorded in
        [36]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

        <trackbot> Created ACTION-375 - Raise issue-63 again in the 7th
        jan call [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-24].

    best practices and sec. 1-2 update

        <fsasaki>
        [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
        lt/2012Dec/0072.html

          [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0072.html

        felix: discussed this last week
        ... both how to cover section 1 and 2 and also on best
        practices
        ... are people happy for christian to edit quite freely

        <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki

        daveL: would be happy to know what the time frame the rewriting
        would be on
        ... david and I wanted to look into this too
        ... need to coordinate things

        <daveL> christian: what time frame would fit best.

        daveL: for me after january 15 would be good
        ... if you want to work on it now, and we hand it over

        <daveL> ACTION: chriLi to provide rewrite of section 1and 2 by
        mid Jan [recorded in
        [38]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

        This is now [39]action-377

          [39]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/377

        <daveL> felix: best practice draft and high level use cases

        <daveL> .. if anyone want to work on this over christmas,
        otherwise i will try and pull these together

        <daveL> ACTION: felix to pull this material on best practice
        together onto wiki for people to comment on [recorded in
        [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

        <trackbot> Created ACTION-376 - Pull this material on best
        practice together onto wiki for people to comment on [on Felix
        Sasaki - due 2012-12-24].

    Prague f2f and next year planning

        <daveL> felix: prague face to face planning will be mostly for
        testing and last minute comments, planning for later in year
        will be discussed in Rome

        [41]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
        ctions/open

          [41]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open

        <daveL> felix: I wish those leaving now a very Merry Christmas!

    EU project action items

        <daveL> fleix; arle, who do we still need input from

        <daveL> arle: still need to assemble what is still missing

        <daveL> felix: we need to compile this by wednesday

        <daveL> ... so please everyone check if they are missing some
        information from actions.

        <omstefanov> A Merry Christmas and a "Guten Rutsch" to you,
        Felix and to the other chairs!

        <pnietoca> thank you! Merry Chritsmas to all!

        <omstefanov> Merry Christmas to all!

        you too, olaf!

    Summary of Action Items

        [NEW] ACTION: chriLi to provide rewrite of section 1and 2 by
        mid Jan [recorded in
        [42]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
        [NEW] ACTION: felix to distribute action items to define these
        tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests
        against rcf2119 table [recorded in
        [43]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
        [NEW] ACTION: felix to pull this material on best practice
        together onto wiki for people to comment on [recorded in
        [44]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
        [NEW] ACTION: felix to raise issue-63 again in the 7th jan call
        [recorded in
        [45]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
        [NEW] ACTION: leroy to provide online diff service so posted
        output can be checked [recorded in
        [46]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

        [End of minutes]
          __________________________________________________________


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