- From: Dr. David Filip <David.Filip@ul.ie>
- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:39:52 +0000
- To: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>, Phil Ritchie <philr@vistatec.ie>, "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
All, I realize that Yves, had proposed inverting the value to non-conformance here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html which I think makes lot of sense. So we indeed need Phil's input here for making the call for consensus. @Phil, will you have this addressed in your proposal by tomorrow in order to move forward to the call for consensus? Thanks dF Dr. David Filip ======================= LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS University of Limerick, Ireland telephone: +353-6120-2781 cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 facsimile: +353-6120-2734 mailto: david.filip@ul.ie On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Dr. David Filip <David.Filip@ul.ie> wrote: > Felix, thanks for the minutes. > Felix, Phil, I expected a call for consensus to accept the new > conformance type as proposed by Phil, but the minutes say that this > did not move forward because Phil was not present. > Do you want Phil to make the call for consensus? I thought all was > clear on this one, and we literally only wanted to see if anyone > eventually comes with a new material objection. > I think it is time to close this one.. Thanks and please let me know > how you want to proceed re this issue. > dF > > Dr. David Filip > ======================= > LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS > University of Limerick, Ireland > telephone: +353-6120-2781 > cellphone: +353-86-0222-158 > facsimile: +353-6120-2734 > mailto: david.filip@ul.ie > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> minutes are at >> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html >> and below as text. Two important action items: >> >> - please fill in the doodle poll for Luxembourg, see >> http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 >> - HTML implementers: have a look at >> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item04 >> and the discussion on defaults for HTML. The default implementation proposal >> at >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html >> may put some burden on implementers, see e.g. >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html >> before moving this forward we need to be sure that this is feasible. We will >> discuss the topic again on Wednesday. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Felix >> >> >> - Felix >> >> >> [1]W3C >> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/ >> >> - DRAFT - >> >> MLW-LT WG >> >> 25 Feb 2013 >> >> [2]Agenda >> >> [2] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html >> >> See also: [3]IRC log >> >> [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-irc >> >> Attendees >> >> Present >> joerg, felix, kfritsche, Ankit, Des, Pedro, omstefanov, >> Jirka, Yves, shaunm, Marcis, pnietoca, leroy, mdelolmo, >> Giuseppe, Milan, tadej, davelewis >> >> Regrets >> christian, clemens, dom >> >> Chair >> felix >> >> Scribe >> shaunm >> >> Contents >> >> * [4]Topics >> 1. [5]agenda >> 2. [6]High level usage scenario doc publication >> 3. [7]HTML ITS default behaviour >> 4. [8]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt >> /track/issues/68 >> 5. [9]Conformance type >> 6. [10]XLIFF mapping >> 7. [11]Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS >> Ontology >> 8. [12]AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep >> * [13]Summary of Action Items >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> agenda >> >> <fsasaki> >> [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0241.html >> >> [14] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html >> >> High level usage scenario doc publication >> >> <fsasaki> >> [15]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use >> _cases_-_high_level_summary >> >> [15] >> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary >> >> <fsasaki> - having Christian editing the doc until next Monday >> - vote for publication 6 March call - publication 8 March >> >> <fsasaki> next monday = 4 march >> >> fsasaki: publishing march 8. last date before the workshop >> ... Please go through your use cases >> >> HTML ITS default behaviour >> >> Yves_: there is discrepancy in behavior between different data >> categories in HTML >> ... when an author marks up a document because of different >> behavior in different tools >> ... we don't specify things like the <b> element should be >> withinText >> >> <fsasaki> ITS 1.0 global rules are at >> [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml >> >> [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml >> >> Yves_: we could have a set of global rules for HTML that >> implementors must use >> ... if you don't implement global rules, this won't work. >> instead have default attributes >> >> <fsasaki> default implementation proposal at >> [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0235.html >> >> [17] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html >> >> Yves_: implementation of such defaults is probably difficult >> >> <fsasaki> >> [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0243.html >> >> [18] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html >> >> Yves_: implementation is not a problem for okapi >> >> <fsasaki> >> [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0205.html >> >> [19] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0205.html >> >> pnietoca: some MT systems hardcode translation of some >> attributes >> >> <fsasaki> >> [20]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085 >> >> [20] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085 >> >> Yves_: currently html translate affects attribute and >> its:translate does not >> >> <fsasaki> >> [21]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories >> -defaults-etc >> >> [21] >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories-defaults-etc >> >> kfritsche: in our implementation, we use non HTML specific >> defaults from the ITS spec, sec. 8.1 >> >> <Marcis> Will there be a list of defaults somewhere specified? >> We are currently adding Elements Within Text rules within HTML >> documents... >> >> pnietoca: we use global rules for translate, for instance. >> ... if some people don't use it, you have to hardcode which >> attributes to translate >> >> kfritsche: is this the proposal to change the default values in >> table 8.1? >> >> Yves_: proposal is to have in the html specification >> information on defaults >> >> fsasaki: or we could provide a global rules file >> ... I was proposing the defaults for people only doing its >> locally >> >> Yves_: there's a discrepancy between defaults and global rules >> because of overriding >> ... people who don't implement ITS globally just have to make >> sure the behavior with defaults matches what it would be with >> default values >> >> <fsasaki> shaun: issue of not knowing what you are overriding >> with local attributes - that is an issue with any format right? >> >> <fsasaki> yves: yes >> >> <fsasaki> shaun: who are the implementers who don't do global >> rules? >> >> <fsasaki> >> [22]http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnl >> e/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html >> >> [22] >> http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html >> >> <fsasaki> it seems everybody of the implementers currently on >> the table, do global rules >> >> <fsasaki> karl: new implementers might do local markup only - >> we should be aware of that >> >> <fsasaki> shaun: there is no implementation difficulty for me >> either way >> >> fsasaki: propose not to close this issue too fast >> ... other people not on the call might have different opinions >> >> Yves_: implementors could look at their implementations to see >> how difficult defaults versus global rules is >> >> fsasaki: give implementors time, come back to issue next >> wednesday >> >> <daveL> apologies for joining late >> >> [23]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/ >> 68 >> >> [23] >> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/68 >> >> <fsasaki> see draft + example files here >> [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0221.html >> >> [24] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >> >> tadej: no major contents changes. sent a draft to the mailing >> list >> ... we are dropping granularity levels, renaming to text >> analysis, clarified some >> >> <fsasaki> ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at >> [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in >> [26]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01] >> >> [25] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >> >> <trackbot> Created ACTION-451 - Edit issue-68 proposal at >> [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [on Christian Lieske - >> due 2013-03-04]. >> >> [27] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >> >> <fsasaki> >> [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip >> >> [28] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip >> >> omstefanov: all the file names in the test suite still refer to >> disambiguation >> >> tadej: should we rename all the files? >> >> leroy: yes, and move to directories named for the category >> >> Conformance type >> >> <fsasaki> >> [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html >> >> [29] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html >> >> fsasaki: needs input from Phil. Phil not present today >> >> XLIFF mapping >> >> daveL: xliff round-trip examples for rome help use work through >> some issues >> ... we need separate discussions on how best to present that as >> best practices. don't spend time on that now. maybe in rome >> >> Yves_: while discussing terminology, we realized when you tag >> something in xliff, we don't have a way to mark it up with ITS >> in the original document >> >> <Marcis> A question: if we add mark-up to XLIFF, should we use >> the mrk or its:span annotation? >> >> daveL: in XLIFF we can add things after authoring time; don't >> have local markup for these in ITS >> >> <Yves_> to marcis: <mrk> (you can't have <its:span> in XLIFF) >> >> Yves_: you can add ITS attributes to <mrk>. some are redundant >> with XLIFF attributes >> >> <fsasaki> >> [30]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLI >> FF_Mapping >> >> [30] >> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLIFF_Mapping >> >> daveL: three use cases: mapping from source format to XLIFF, >> mapping from XLIFF to target format, marking up XLIFF to be >> consumed in XLIFF in another process >> ... ideally have the same markup in all those cases, but might >> not be possible >> >> Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS Ontology >> >> <fsasaki> >> [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html >> >> [31] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html >> >> fsasaki: don't require normalization in other technologies. >> propose to close issue >> >> <fsasaki> >> [32]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i >> ssues/119 >> >> [32] >> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/119 >> >> <fsasaki> >> [33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS >> -RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29 >> >> [33] >> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS-RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29 >> >> daveL: expanded that out of example in NIF >> ... took a Relax NG schema and went through data categories to >> see which could be used in RDF and NIF >> ... appreciate feedback >> ... haven't figured out what we need to do with annotators ref. >> works out in provenance setting, but maybe not NIF >> ... problems where we've introduced idea that order has >> temporal relationship >> >> AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep >> >> <fsasaki> [34]http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 >> >> [34] http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9 >> >> fsasaki: have a call to prepare for rome meeting. please fill >> in doodle poll >> >> Summary of Action Items >> >> [NEW] ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at >> [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb- >> lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in >> [36]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01] >> >> [35] >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html >> >> [End of minutes] >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> >> Minutes formatted by David Booth's [37]scribe.perl version >> 1.137 ([38]CVS log) >> $Date: 2013-02-25 17:36:45 $ >> >> [37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm >> [38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ >> >>
Received on Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:41:02 UTC