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Re: [Issue-63] New value for "Values for the Localization Quality Issue Type": "conformance" Re: [Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-02-25 and action for implementers / review dry run

From: Dr. David Filip <David.Filip@ul.ie>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:39:52 +0000
Message-ID: <CANw5LKkNBYNw2v+v2oGooLnc16C-62SnvgP0ejAmXF5CdZjOkw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>, Phil Ritchie <philr@vistatec.ie>, "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
All, I realize that Yves, had proposed inverting the value to
non-conformance here
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html
which I think makes lot of sense.
So we indeed need Phil's input here for making the call for consensus.
@Phil, will you have this addressed in your proposal by tomorrow in
order to move forward to the call for consensus?
Thanks
dF

Dr. David Filip
=======================
LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS
University of Limerick, Ireland
telephone: +353-6120-2781
cellphone: +353-86-0222-158
facsimile: +353-6120-2734
mailto: david.filip@ul.ie


On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Dr. David Filip <David.Filip@ul.ie> wrote:
> Felix, thanks for the minutes.
> Felix, Phil, I expected a call for consensus to accept the new
> conformance type as proposed by Phil, but the minutes say that this
> did not move forward because Phil was not present.
> Do you want Phil to make the call for consensus? I thought all was
> clear on this one, and we literally only wanted to see if anyone
> eventually comes with a new material objection.
> I think it is time to close this one.. Thanks and please let me know
> how you want to proceed re this issue.
> dF
>
> Dr. David Filip
> =======================
> LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS
> University of Limerick, Ireland
> telephone: +353-6120-2781
> cellphone: +353-86-0222-158
> facsimile: +353-6120-2734
> mailto: david.filip@ul.ie
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> minutes are at
>> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html
>> and below as text. Two important action items:
>>
>> - please fill in the doodle poll for Luxembourg, see
>> http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9
>> - HTML implementers: have a look at
>> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item04
>> and the discussion on defaults for HTML. The default implementation proposal
>> at
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html
>> may put some burden on implementers, see e.g.
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html
>> before moving this forward we need to be sure that this is feasible. We will
>> discuss the topic again on Wednesday.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Felix
>>
>>
>> - Felix
>>
>>
>>    [1]W3C
>>
>>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>>
>>                                - DRAFT -
>>
>>                                MLW-LT WG
>>
>> 25 Feb 2013
>>
>>    [2]Agenda
>>
>>       [2]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html
>>
>>    See also: [3]IRC log
>>
>>       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-irc
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>>    Present
>>           joerg, felix, kfritsche, Ankit, Des, Pedro, omstefanov,
>>           Jirka, Yves, shaunm, Marcis, pnietoca, leroy, mdelolmo,
>>           Giuseppe, Milan, tadej, davelewis
>>
>>    Regrets
>>           christian, clemens, dom
>>
>>    Chair
>>           felix
>>
>>    Scribe
>>           shaunm
>>
>> Contents
>>
>>      * [4]Topics
>>          1. [5]agenda
>>          2. [6]High level usage scenario doc publication
>>          3. [7]HTML ITS default behaviour
>>          4. [8]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
>>             /track/issues/68
>>          5. [9]Conformance type
>>          6. [10]XLIFF mapping
>>          7. [11]Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS
>>             Ontology
>>          8. [12]AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep
>>      * [13]Summary of Action Items
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>> agenda
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0241.html
>>
>>      [14]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html
>>
>> High level usage scenario doc publication
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [15]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use
>>    _cases_-_high_level_summary
>>
>>      [15]
>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary
>>
>>    <fsasaki> - having Christian editing the doc until next Monday
>>    - vote for publication 6 March call - publication 8 March
>>
>>    <fsasaki> next monday = 4 march
>>
>>    fsasaki: publishing march 8. last date before the workshop
>>    ... Please go through your use cases
>>
>> HTML ITS default behaviour
>>
>>    Yves_: there is discrepancy in behavior between different data
>>    categories in HTML
>>    ... when an author marks up a document because of different
>>    behavior in different tools
>>    ... we don't specify things like the <b> element should be
>>    withinText
>>
>>    <fsasaki> ITS 1.0 global rules are at
>>    [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml
>>
>>      [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml
>>
>>    Yves_: we could have a set of global rules for HTML that
>>    implementors must use
>>    ... if you don't implement global rules, this won't work.
>>    instead have default attributes
>>
>>    <fsasaki> default implementation proposal at
>>    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0235.html
>>
>>      [17]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html
>>
>>    Yves_: implementation of such defaults is probably difficult
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0243.html
>>
>>      [18]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html
>>
>>    Yves_: implementation is not a problem for okapi
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0205.html
>>
>>      [19]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0205.html
>>
>>    pnietoca: some MT systems hardcode translation of some
>>    attributes
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [20]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085
>>
>>      [20] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085
>>
>>    Yves_: currently html translate affects attribute and
>>    its:translate does not
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [21]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories
>>    -defaults-etc
>>
>>      [21]
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories-defaults-etc
>>
>>    kfritsche: in our implementation, we use non HTML specific
>>    defaults from the ITS spec, sec. 8.1
>>
>>    <Marcis> Will there be a list of defaults somewhere specified?
>>    We are currently adding Elements Within Text rules within HTML
>>    documents...
>>
>>    pnietoca: we use global rules for translate, for instance.
>>    ... if some people don't use it, you have to hardcode which
>>    attributes to translate
>>
>>    kfritsche: is this the proposal to change the default values in
>>    table 8.1?
>>
>>    Yves_: proposal is to have in the html specification
>>    information on defaults
>>
>>    fsasaki: or we could provide a global rules file
>>    ... I was proposing the defaults for people only doing its
>>    locally
>>
>>    Yves_: there's a discrepancy between defaults and global rules
>>    because of overriding
>>    ... people who don't implement ITS globally just have to make
>>    sure the behavior with defaults matches what it would be with
>>    default values
>>
>>    <fsasaki> shaun: issue of not knowing what you are overriding
>>    with local attributes - that is an issue with any format right?
>>
>>    <fsasaki> yves: yes
>>
>>    <fsasaki> shaun: who are the implementers who don't do global
>>    rules?
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [22]http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnl
>>    e/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html
>>
>>      [22]
>> http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html
>>
>>    <fsasaki> it seems everybody of the implementers currently on
>>    the table, do global rules
>>
>>    <fsasaki> karl: new implementers might do local markup only -
>>    we should be aware of that
>>
>>    <fsasaki> shaun: there is no implementation difficulty for me
>>    either way
>>
>>    fsasaki: propose not to close this issue too fast
>>    ... other people not on the call might have different opinions
>>
>>    Yves_: implementors could look at their implementations to see
>>    how difficult defaults versus global rules is
>>
>>    fsasaki: give implementors time, come back to issue next
>>    wednesday
>>
>>    <daveL> apologies for joining late
>>
>> [23]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/
>> 68
>>
>>      [23]
>> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/68
>>
>>    <fsasaki> see draft + example files here
>>    [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0221.html
>>
>>      [24]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html
>>
>>    tadej: no major contents changes. sent a draft to the mailing
>>    list
>>    ... we are dropping granularity levels, renaming to text
>>    analysis, clarified some
>>
>>    <fsasaki> ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at
>>    [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in
>>    [26]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>>      [25]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html
>>
>>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-451 - Edit issue-68 proposal at
>>    [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [on Christian Lieske -
>>    due 2013-03-04].
>>
>>      [27]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip
>>
>>      [28]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip
>>
>>    omstefanov: all the file names in the test suite still refer to
>>    disambiguation
>>
>>    tadej: should we rename all the files?
>>
>>    leroy: yes, and move to directories named for the category
>>
>> Conformance type
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html
>>
>>      [29]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html
>>
>>    fsasaki: needs input from Phil. Phil not present today
>>
>> XLIFF mapping
>>
>>    daveL: xliff round-trip examples for rome help use work through
>>    some issues
>>    ... we need separate discussions on how best to present that as
>>    best practices. don't spend time on that now. maybe in rome
>>
>>    Yves_: while discussing terminology, we realized when you tag
>>    something in xliff, we don't have a way to mark it up with ITS
>>    in the original document
>>
>>    <Marcis> A question: if we add mark-up to XLIFF, should we use
>>    the mrk or its:span annotation?
>>
>>    daveL: in XLIFF we can add things after authoring time; don't
>>    have local markup for these in ITS
>>
>>    <Yves_> to marcis: <mrk> (you can't have <its:span> in XLIFF)
>>
>>    Yves_: you can add ITS attributes to <mrk>. some are redundant
>>    with XLIFF attributes
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [30]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLI
>>    FF_Mapping
>>
>>      [30]
>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLIFF_Mapping
>>
>>    daveL: three use cases: mapping from source format to XLIFF,
>>    mapping from XLIFF to target format, marking up XLIFF to be
>>    consumed in XLIFF in another process
>>    ... ideally have the same markup in all those cases, but might
>>    not be possible
>>
>> Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS Ontology
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html
>>
>>      [31]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html
>>
>>    fsasaki: don't require normalization in other technologies.
>>    propose to close issue
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [32]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i
>>    ssues/119
>>
>>      [32]
>> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/119
>>
>>    <fsasaki>
>>    [33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS
>>    -RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29
>>
>>      [33]
>> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS-RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29
>>
>>    daveL: expanded that out of example in NIF
>>    ... took a Relax NG schema and went through data categories to
>>    see which could be used in RDF and NIF
>>    ... appreciate feedback
>>    ... haven't figured out what we need to do with annotators ref.
>>    works out in provenance setting, but maybe not NIF
>>    ... problems where we've introduced idea that order has
>>    temporal relationship
>>
>> AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep
>>
>>    <fsasaki> [34]http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9
>>
>>      [34] http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9
>>
>>    fsasaki: have a call to prepare for rome meeting. please fill
>>    in doodle poll
>>
>> Summary of Action Items
>>
>>    [NEW] ACTION: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at
>>    [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>>    lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [recorded in
>>    [36]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
>>
>>      [35]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html
>>
>>    [End of minutes]
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [37]scribe.perl version
>>     1.137 ([38]CVS log)
>>     $Date: 2013-02-25 17:36:45 $
>>
>>      [37] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>>      [38] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>>
>>
Received on Tuesday, 26 February 2013 13:41:02 UTC

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