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[Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-02-11

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:48:15 +0100
Message-ID: <51192EDF.2070400@w3.org>
To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
Hi all,

minutes from today's call are at
http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html
and below as text.

best,

Felix

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                                mlw-lt wg

11 Feb 2013

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0050.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-irc

Attendees

    Present
           felix, DomJones, Marcis, mdelolmo, leroy, DaveLewis,
           shaunm, philr, olaf-michael, ankit, Ankit, kfritsche,
           Milan, pnietoca, tadej

    Regrets
           Jörg, yves, dF, christian

    Chair
           felix

    Scribe
           Marcis

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Prague ITS2 presence
          2. [6]"high level use cases" document publishing
          3. [7]xml:lang vs. lang issue-110
          4. [8]NIF comments
          5. [9]Space normalization for its:locNOte
          6. [10]issues in note in 2.1.2 (no issue number yet)
          7. [11]not an issue, but anyway: proposed wiki changes
          8. [12]xliff samples
          9. [13]inline global rules in xhtml and other xhtml stuff
         10. [14]disambiguation vs. term - update on issue-68
         11. [15]Other issues that need discussion to close "last
             call" period
         12. [16]Rome preparation heads up
         13. [17]aob
      * [18]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

Prague ITS2 presence

    felix: Carl & Frederick gave a presentation in XML Prague
    ... topic of the presentation - building more connectors
    ... connectors between ITS 2.0 supported systems (from XML
    editor, e.g., to OKAPI, etc.)
    ... Good progress in implementation work
    ... If there are resources left in the second half, maybe there
    could be implementations on connectors between tools

    >> second half -> second half of 2013

"high level use cases" document publishing

    felix: by Feb 15th people need to update Wiki

xml:lang vs. lang issue-110

    felix: There was no clear outcome of the discussion (in
    previous call)
    ... Is there something more needed?

    Dave: Last Mondays call, it came down to change wording in the
    specification - the general issue where ITS applies in HTML
    where it is XML
    ... We discussed in the call that there should be a note
    ... Or a best practice
    ... The wording refers to when you work with XHTML in Web
    ... There was no solution if we would use XHTML as an internal
    format

    Felix: talked to Jirka, he said that easy guidance could be
    that if it is XHTML you handle it as XML, but if you need to
    publish it, it could be changed to "its-"

    Dave: Could be good clarification

    Felix: Jirka not here, so we cannot create the note

    <fsasaki> ACTION: jirka to draft an explanatory note on
    issue-110 - where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML,
    including a workflow on the web and outside the web [recorded
    in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-444 - Draft an explanatory note on
    issue-110 - where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML,
    including a workflow on the web and outside the web [on Jirka
    Kosek - due 2013-02-18].

    Felix: Could be useful to Linguaserve

NIF comments

    <fsasaki>
    [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Jan/0015.html

      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0015.html

    Felix: waiting for Christian to get back on us
    ... Later in the call, term+disamb
    ... Could help resolve the Nif comment

    Dave: It has come up with the Indic languages+disambig.
    ... Also possibly Loc.note, etc.

    <fsasaki>
    [21]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i
    ssues/109

      [21] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/109

    Dave: Got a response on NIF (in e-mail

    Felix: Is there someone writing / do we have the manpower

    <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to write a note about NIF role for
    standoff scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109
    [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-445 - Write a note about NIF role for
    standoff scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109 [on
    Felix Sasaki - due 2013-02-18].

    Felix: Writing himself an action on Issue 68 and 109

    Dave: The note first and then we will see
    ... Working with Leroy on best practice where NIF predicates
    could be used
    ... but there are no examples yet

    Felix: wants to do dreaming around
    ... dreams about standardising NIF through W3C
    ... Could it be a topic to discuss?

    Dave: The onto-lexica group maybe is interested
    ... maybe also in CNGL
    ... It could fit well - could be interesting (also to DCU)
    ... There hasn't been much activity on the onto-lexica group
    ... But we could put the idea on the table

    Could someone turn the music off

    <fsasaki> done :)

    Dave: NIF plays a big role in [some events]

    <fsasaki> = european data forum etc.

Space normalization for its:locNOte

    <fsasaki>
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Feb/0049.html

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0049.html

    Shon: Minor issue, we have no spec. that states in the loc note
    element for space normalisation.
    ... not clear whether it should be normalised
    ... seems clear that everyone does it
    ... Should we get into details how it should be normalised?

    <fsasaki> this is now
    [24]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i
    ssues/116

      [24] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/116

    Shon: Difficult to specify ...

    Felix: Test Suite output won't be influenced
    ... test suite removes empty spaces
    ... not perfect, but catches most errors
    ... In output we have a description where there is space/tab
    character

    Shon: I'm working with test files, othis is how the issue got
    apparent

    (not sure I got this right - there is someone breathing really
    loud - I barely hear Shon)

    Shon: But not sure whether this is really a big issue

    Shon/Felix: suggest to leave as is

    Felix: We come back next week and close it next week

issues in note in 2.1.2 (no issue number yet)

    Felix: By Shaun

    <fsasaki>
    [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Feb/0048.html

      [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0048.html

    Shaun: tried to give an example for a selector that would not
    work if you put it in XSLT
    ... Example is not a valid path as it is missing a leading
    slash
    ... example in ITS spec...

    <fsasaki> now
    [26]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/i
    ssues/117

      [26] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/117

    Shaun: Seems to be ok if you cannot handle absolute paths then
    it is not conforming to the spec.

    Felix: ITS 2.0 there was a change in late december - it is just
    a location path and not an abs. loc. path

    <fsasaki>
    [27]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#d0e2063

      [27] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#d0e2063

    Felix: It is also possible to use relative paths

    Shaun: Language should be cleaned up in the example

    Felix: Pandora box 6.1?

    <fsasaki> section 1-2

    Felix: Not 6.1, but 1-2
    ... These are not normative, but have a lot of issues
    ... We do not need to resolve this for the last call, but the
    sections will have to be updated
    ... Proposes Shaun to rewrite the example

    Shaun: Yes

    <fsasaki> ACTION: shaun to re-write example mentioned in
    issue-117 [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-446 - Re-write example mentioned in
    issue-117 [on Shaun McCance - due 2013-02-18].

not an issue, but anyway: proposed wiki changes

    <fsasaki>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Feb/0028.html

      [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0028.html

    Felix: Wiki changes, wants for people to be aware
    ... Thx. to people who already made changes
    ... Will make changes on Friday

xliff samples

    <fsasaki>
    [30]https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/tree/master/its
    2.0/xliffsamples

      [30] https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/tree/master/its2.0/xliffsamples

    Felix: XLIFF samples, various people+Marcis asked
    ... This is not part of conformance testing
    ... People need this, but this is not for the stand. process

    Dave: finding it useful
    ... useful for use-cases for Rome
    ... Giving us means to figure out the XLIFF mapping

    <fsasaki> yves' mail on the mapping at
    [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Feb/0046.html

      [31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0046.html

    Dave: Using for testing of mapping for provenance
    ... Will put more examples later this week
    ... Had a talk with Ankit/Phil to see whether XLIFF mapping for
    [..] could be included as well

    <fsasaki> Marcis: thanks a lot, we were looking for such
    examples

    <fsasaki> .. we are looking forward to see more, covering other
    data categories

    <fsasaki> .. looked at the biiiig XLIFF file

    <fsasaki> .. we are looking for particularily elements that
    cover data categories that we will implement

    <fsasaki> .. terminology, elements within text, ...

    <fsasaki> .. haven't had the change whether the examples cover
    everthing

    <fsasaki> felix: do you need several data categories at the
    same time in one file?

    <fsasaki> marcis: no, even if we have one data category per
    file that is enough

    <fsasaki> dave: we are also looking into how to introduce tan
    and terminology into a use case

    <fsasaki> .. we have taken content out of xliff, run it through
    enrycher and what the output would be

    <fsasaki> .. not sure what the values would be, but we start
    with suggestions

    <fsasaki> marcis: the more test files we have the better

    <fsasaki> dave: esp. real life translated

    <fsasaki> ACTION: yves to make a batch transformation of the
    test suite to xliff [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-447 - Make a batch transformation of
    the test suite to xliff [on Yves Savourel - due 2013-02-18].

inline global rules in xhtml and other xhtml stuff

    <fsasaki> covered by action to jirka, see above

    Felix: already gave action item to Jurka

disambiguation vs. term - update on issue-68

    Felix: As said before call, me, Tadej, Marcis, and Christian
    took this off the call
    ... Outcome: some issues are resolved
    ... Differences came clear
    ... confidence of term relates to term=yes/no, but not the ref.
    ... For Disambig. it relates to the complete annotation
    ... Maybe after Wednesday we will come up with ways how to make
    differences clearer
    ... does not want this to be secret discussion
    ... Offline calls meant just to move discussion forward
    ... anyone can join

    Dave: to clarify - the value for terminology confidence relates
    to term=yes/no?

    Felix: Yes
    ... this is why here merging does not fit
    ... A guess for the outcome - we probably won't merge, but will
    have progress on describing relations and giving guidance on
    usefulness

    <fsasaki> tadej: one solution would be to have two different
    confidence values, one for term flag, one for identifier

    <fsasaki> .. but there is a lot of orthnogality here, no clean
    way to merge things

    <fsasaki> ..we also decided to call this "text analyis", it has
    a "ta" prefix instead of a "disambig" prefix

    <fsasaki> marcis: nothing to add

Other issues that need discussion to close "last call" period

    Felix: Some new small issues, the larger on term+disambig

    <fsasaki>
    [33]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
    ctions/open

      [33] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open

    Felix: Have we forgotten anything?
    ... knows person who has the most actions - he is called Felix

    I hear only noise

    Dave: said last week that there were people for shephearding
    ... If they could send out a message to commenters leaving one
    week to reply whether answers are satisfactory?!

    Felix: Agrees

Rome preparation heads up

    Felix: Rome workshop ahead, call next week, Feb. 20
    ... Asked implementers to prepare poster drafts
    ... Will be public

aob

    Felix: Any other questions?
    ... thanks a lot
    ... good that we have run out of discussion topics
    ... We could have also shorter calls in the future

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: felix to write a note about NIF role for standoff
    scenarios (might include issue-68 and issue-109 [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: jirka to draft an explanatory note on issue-110 -
    where ITS applies in HTML where it is XML, including a workflow
    on the web and outside the web [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: shaun to re-write example mentioned in issue-117
    [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: yves to make a batch transformation of the test
    suite to xliff [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/11-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


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