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[Minutes] MLW-LT call 2013-02-04

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 18:48:00 +0100
Message-ID: <51192ED0.5020001@w3.org>
To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
Hi all,

here are the minutes from last week call one
http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html

apologies for the delay. Let me know if something (e.g. attendance) 
needs to be fixed.

Best,

Felix

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

             MultilingualWeb-LT Working Group Teleconference

04 Feb 2013

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-irc

Attendees

    Present
           daveL, shawn, chriLi, yves, mauricio, omstefanovm,
           kfritsche, dom

    Regrets
           not available

    Chair
           daveL

    Scribe
           DomJones

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]allowed characters regex discussion
          2. [5]text for unicode normalization and best practices
             action for Shaun issue-73
          3. [6]domain comments issue-75 action for Christian
          4. [7]terminology and disambiguation issue-68 action for
             Tadej
          5. [8]Minutes and Felix' comments
          6. [9]How to move forward with disambiguation vs term
             issue-67?
          7. [10]issue-110 precedence between xml:lang and lang
          8. [11]issue-115 SHOULD and SHOULD NOT examples
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

allowed characters regex discussion

    shawnm: The subset is safe, reg exp that match the subset will
    be as how to refer to character ranges. These ranges end on
    chars which are unassigned. You could put a codepoint into the
    reg ex, there are no escape sequences. On the tested engines
    that's fine but you are putting an unassigned code-point into
    the exp. This is unprincipled for the standard and would like
    strange in ITS spec.

    ... in the spec maybe refer to it with XML values

    daveL: Any comments?

    ... did you say there was another update to do on that shawn?

    shawnm: not complete yet but will send this week

text for unicode normalization and best practices action for Shaun
issue-73

    daveL: action on text for unicode norm. Action 430.

    shawnm: not done yet, still pending.

    ... will have reg ex done by wednesday call not action 430

    daveL: Appreciate that

domain comments issue-75 action for Christian

    <daveL>
    [13]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
    ctions/434

      [13] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/434

    daveL: Action 434 were you able to get any further on this
    Christian?

    chriLi: Will start working on this tomorrow

    daveL: Appreciate this

terminology and disambiguation issue-68 action for Tadej

    <daveL>
    [14]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
    ctions/435

      [14] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/435

    daveL: Action 435 tadej asks for this to be postponed until
    wednesday in his absence. (only on IRC)

    ... Christian do you have time to talk to Tadej and Milan about
    this?

    chrLi: Yes, on wednesday

Minutes and Felix' comments

    <daveL>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2013Jan/0210.html

      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Jan/0210.html

    <daveL>
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Jan/0101.html

      [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0101.html

    daveL: things that weren't captured on actions. There are a
    number of things there relating to best practices. He was
    asking christian if that would help with the NIF converstion /
    normalisation. AFAIK: Felix has not had time to discuss NIF
    with Sebastian Hellman. Christian, have you replied to that
    already?

    ... you'd had a comment on canonical XML and interchange formats.

    ... Felix was asking what that topic would address normalisation
    issues to do with NIF converstion.

    chriLi: I would need to revisit Felix's comments to answer that

    daveL: maybe worth waiting to see what we get from Shawn in a
    day or 2

    ... felix likely out of action this week.

    ... seems like a big topic

    We'll leave that for now

    chriLi: I will look into this in the meantime

How to move forward with disambiguation vs term issue-67?

    <daveL> deferred until wednesday

    daveL: a couple of issues for discussions, raised by felix

issue-110 precedence between xml:lang and lang

    ... between co-chairs issues have been divided up so we focus on
    different things and assure tracker is kept up to date.

    ... we have an xhtml test which addreses this but querying
    whether it should be there or not

    Yves_ when you xml lang in html5 this is allowed but it has to
    have the same value as lang and can only be there if lang
    exists as well. Dont think we need to test for that we just
    look for lang value and see if its the same as xml lang. -ve
    test shows invalid HTML5 test.

    ... for XHTML the xml lang value takes precedence. Problem is we
    didnt say we were processing XHTML therefore if this is
    required should be a different test.

    shawnm: Should not have a third mode. XHTML should be processed
    as XML or as HTML hoping for markup. There is perhaps an ambig
    over lang or xml lang taking precidence.

    Yves_ XHTML file using validator.nu raises issues. If I try to
    process the files as an XML doc then then both notations are
    required.

    shawnm: XHTML would raise bigger issues using XML markup?

    Yves_: only problem is the XML Lang attribute.

    ... I guess we can work around this but worry about others, using
    other parsers.

    daveL: Anyone else have concerns about this? Share shawns broad
    view as not testing against XHTML.

    Yves_: Do we have a should keyword in the documentation?

    ... yes we do

    <Yves_>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup

      [17] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup

    daveL: a general should - is not generally tested for. We
    havent to date but we dont have many of them

    shawnm: An interesting should "quotes txt" it is perfectly
    acceptable to have an XML only tool within the ITS spec.
    Following should in section 7 makes doc that is not processable
    by XML only validator.

    Yves_: tricky as file is processable by two different
    validaotrs with different expectations.

    shawnm: is it acceptable to use both notations?

    Yves_: Maybe its fine the way it is and that we dont test for
    it, just provide guidelines.

    daveL: could that should be converted to a best-practice?

    shawnm: Would feel more comfortable about this being a best
    practice

    Yves_: good arg for both

    shawnm: Lang - correct behaviour - xhtml = lang attribute, in
    xml = only xml lang, it takes precidence

    Yves_: remove the example from the XML test case as there is no
    need for it there

    ... still not resolved general xml issue but we should not have
    an XHTML example there

    shawnm: I agree with you

    <scribe> ACTION: leroy to remove XHTML example for ITS language
    information [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-441 - Remove XHTML example for ITS
    language information [on Leroy Finn - due 2013-02-11].

    Yves_: How we test XHTML is a different topic, right?

    daveL: Yes, should raise as a general topic

    <scribe> ACTION: daveL to raise an issue on how to test for
    XHTML [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-442 - Raise an issue on how to test
    for XHTML [on David Lewis - due 2013-02-11].

    daveL: Will raise the issue, Yves, can you respond to that?

    Yves_: yes, of course

issue-115 SHOULD and SHOULD NOT examples

    <daveL>
    [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Jan/0214.html

      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0214.html

    Yves_: SVG can be in XHTML and Jirka raise an issue that XML
    cannot be validated in the svg snippet

    <Yves_> Jirka:
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Jan/0213.html

      [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0213.html

    ... was an argument from Jirka shown above.

    shawnm: no way to put local attributes on svg etc.

    Yves_: So its a non-case

    shawnm: theoretically yes

    ... if its important to you as doc author to use local markup on
    embedded svg then use HTML

    <daveL>
    [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2013Jan/0209.html

      [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Jan/0209.html

    daveL: Comment from mauricio on that topic

    mauricio: the most important thing is that these decisions
    effect the impl

    implementations we're doing for WP 3

    <omstefanov> Mauricio

    ... I think that we will address that after the contents have
    been translated.

    mauricio: A formal way to show what they have done, best
    practices not fully supported.

    ... I'd like to know a better way to do this

    ... Can I use XHTML like XML with global rules and locally with
    XML format?

    <daveL>
    [23]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup

      [23] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#xhtml5-markup

    daveL: In your case (section 7) it should be used like HTML. In
    your case is that HTML for public consumption?

    mauricio: The content is extracted from the CMS, translated and
    sent back

    daveL: its HTML that is publicly shown.

    mauricio: Drupal extracts that

    <Yves_> I think in Linguaserve case the XHTML is not for Web
    broswer so using the XML notation for everything is the way to
    go.

    <kfritsche> the XHTML is only a interchange format, drupal
    shows it as HTML5

    daveL: Section which says should is for public consumption,
    which is not the case in your case.

    ... Still seems to be an open issue

    ... need input from Jirka on SVG and other vocabs within HTML

    ... should we put this is as clairification in the spec?

    mauricio: some guidelines would be very appreciated.

    daveL: Agree these are big classes of applications

    <kfritsche> +1

    daveL: Add a note about SVG and MathML re treating XHTML as
    HTML

    ... implication on best-practice and on the test suite

    Yves_: Its a should so should be clairifed in the section. 2
    test cases, one for XML notation and one for XHTML notation.
    Allowing the user to choose.

    daveL: So have examples in section 5

    ... Yves would you be willing to draft some text on that

    Yves_: Yes, will do if you raise an issue on that

    daveL: One thing, shepherds for various issues... Can you look
    back and see if people have responded. If not, after a week
    please email again stating if you dont hear back within a week
    it implies you are satisfied

    ... would ask others to follow up in this way

    ... that way we have a record that we did our best for
    clarification

    daveL: meeting closed. Talk on Wednesday

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: daveL to raise an issue on how to test for XHTML
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: leroy to remove XHTML example for ITS language
    information [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2013/02/04-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


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Received on Monday, 11 February 2013 17:48:28 UTC

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