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Re: [All] editing call minutes and two questions

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 13:06:13 +0100
Message-ID: <50B8A135.1000409@w3.org>
To: Mārcis Pinnis <marcis.pinnis@Tilde.lv>
CC: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>, "tadej.stajner@ijs.si" <tadej.stajner@ijs.si>
Am 30.11.12 12:57, schrieb Mārcis Pinnis:
>
> Hi Felix,
>
> If I understand correctly the question is whether we need to add 
> global rules for Term Confidence?
>

Yes - to be precise, at
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#terminology-global
there is no termConfidence attribute, but at
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#terminology-local
you have the attribute. The question is whether this difference is OK.


> 1)It depends on whether there is a way to mark terms in the scenarios 
> that require a global MT Confidence? For instance, can we add global 
> rules referring to subparts of texts where tags or attributes are not 
> allowed? MT confidence would indicate to the whole tag or attribute, 
> but not the subparts. If we cannot annotate the subparts as terms, 
> then Term Confidence in global rules would not make sense as such 
> fragments would seldom be terms anyway (they would probably be larger 
> expressions).
>
> 2)On the other hand, Terminology may be defined also globally (example 
> 40), but it refers to whole tags (or attributes ...). For such cases 
> it would be reasonable to add a global rule that would identify a 
> single tag or attribute in the case if a local attribute is not 
> possible. However, such an implementation would require identifying 
> each separate element or attribute with its own xPath and that would 
> cause complexity in editing a document and I would not see it useful 
> (the troubles are from a development point of view not worth it... – 
> having a dictionary apart from the document then would make much more 
> sense, but that is not what ITS is about...)
>
> Personally, I do not like the idea of having a global indicator to 
> precise elements/attributes at all (I think that such structures cause 
> huge problems when data needs to be updated), but if there is already 
> a mechanism for MTConfidence, then someone has already gone through 
> the trouble?! And from that point of view, it may be worth considering 
> also such an option for other confidence scores. Also from a 
> functional perspective (whether we can annotate anything anywhere with 
> the help of ITS 2.0) we would need to add it, I suppose.
>
> Thoughts?
>

The people who have discussed this so far didn't have a strong opinion 
about adding termConfidence to global. There is no need to align 
everything between data categories. So from what you say above it seems 
that you also don't ask strongly for the global termConfidence - which 
is OK. I have no opinion, just trying to make a decision soon so that we 
can finalize the "last call" (=feature complete) draft.

Best,

Felix

> Best regards,
>
> Mārcis ;o)
>
> *From:*Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 29, 2012 6:28 PM
> *To:* public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org; Mārcis Pinnis; 
> tadej.stajner@ijs.si
> *Subject:* [All] editing call minutes and two questions
>
> Hi all, esp. Mārcis and Tadej (since there are questions for you below),
>
> see the minutes from today's editing call here
>
> http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html
>
> and below. Two important questions
>
> 1) Esp. for Mārcis: can you have a look at
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0254.html
> question no 2), and tell us what you think?
>
> 2) Esp. for Tadej: you said that in the global section of 
> disambiguation we should add disambigSource
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0234.html
> but we realized that we don't know how. In the global section there is 
> no mention of "mode 1" and "mode ".
>
> Can you re-write the definition of global in disambiguation
>
> [
>
> ·A required |selector| attribute that contains an absolute selector 
> <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors> 
> which selects the nodes to which this rule applies.
>
> ·An optional |disambigGranularity| attribute that contains a string, 
> specifying the granularity level of the disambiguation. The value MUST 
> <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#rfc2119> 
> be one of the following identifiers: "lexicalConcept", 
> "ontologyConcept", or "entity". The default value is "entity".
>
> ·At least one of the following:
>
> oTo specify the target type class, exactly one of the following:
>
> §A |disambigClassPointer| attribute that contains a relative selector 
> <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors> 
> pointing to a node specifying the type of entity or concept class 
> behind the selector.
>
> §A |disambigClassRefPointer| attribute that contains a relative 
> selector 
> <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors> 
> pointing to a node that holds an IRI that specifies the type of entity 
> or concept class behind the selector.
>
> oTo specify the target identity, exactly one of the following:
>
> §A |disambigIdentPointer| attribute that contains a relative selector 
> <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors> 
> pointing to a node that represents a unique identifier for the 
> disambiguation target.
>
> §A |disambigIdentRefPointer| attribute that contains a relative 
> selector 
> <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors> 
> pointing to a node that holds an IRI that represents a unique 
> identifier for the disambiguation target.
>
>
> ]
>
> so that the two modes and disambigSource are in here?
>
> Having that by Friday end of business day would be great. We then 
> would be finished with the normative parts of the draft.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Felix
>
>     [1]W3C
>   
>        [1]http://www.w3.org/
>   
>                                 - DRAFT -
>   
>                            MLW-LT editing call
>   
> 29 Nov 2012
>   
>     See also: [2]IRC log
>   
>        [2]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-irc
>   
> Attendees
>   
>     Present
>            dave, felix, jirka, tadej, karl, Yves_
>   
>     Regrets
>     Chair
>            felix
>   
>     Scribe
>            fsasaki
>   
> Contents
>   
>       * [3]Topics
>           1. [4]questions from yesterday
>           2. [5]8.13 External Resource
>           3. [6]8.14 Target Pointer
>           4. [7]8.15 Id Value
>           5. [8]8.16 Preserve Space
>           6. [9]8.17 Localization Quality Issue
>           7. [10]8.18 Localization Quality Rating
>           8. [11]validation of example files
>           9. [12]8.19 MT Confidence
>          10. [13]back to rating data category
>          11. [14]allowed characters + storage size (again)
>          12. [15]going back to rating value
>          13. [16]spec editing topics
>          14. [17]disambigSourcePointer
>       * [18]Summary of Action Items
>       __________________________________________________________
>   
>     <scribe> scribe: fsasaki
>   
> questions from yesterday
>   
>     dave sent out mail to confirm confidence score for terminology,
>     as discussed yesterday
>   
>     <Yves_> FWIW: we'll implement confidence it in Okapi in needed
>   
>     now on action-339
>   
>     provRef as single URI or list of URI?
>   
>     "Reference to external provenance information"
>   
>     "AN IRI" > "A space separated list of IRIs"
>   
>     <Yves_> then the examples need to be changed too
>   
>     <Yves_> I reduced them all to a single IRI
>   
>     "A space (U+0020) separated list of IRIs"
>   
>     Yves_, currently changing just one example -
>     EX-provenance-local-1.xml, to have a space separated list
>   
> 8.13 External Resource
>   
>     nothing on external resource, it seems
>   
> 8.14 Target Pointer
>   
>     nothing on target pointer, it seems
>   
> 8.15 Id Value
>   
>     mail from fredrik
>     [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
>     lt/2012Nov/0250.html
>   
>       [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0250.html
>   
>     <Yves_> +1 for Jirka's comment
>   
>     changing the id value section to say: "If the attribute xml:id
>     is present or id in HTML for the selected node, the value of
>     the xml:id attribute or id in HTML MUST take precedence over
>     the idValue value."
>   
>     that's everyting on id value section, it seems
>   
>     <Yves_> One note for later (Storage Size section): "Dominican
>     Replubic" should Dominican Republic" in example
>     EX-storageSize-html5-local-1.html
>   
>     Applying the id value data category to xml:id (in XML) or id
>     (in HTML) attributes in global rules is not necessary since
>     those attributes are ...
>   
>     Yves_, thanks, we will take that up later, now 8.16 Preserve
>     Space
>   
> 8.16 Preserve Space
>   
>     added a link from "xml:space" to
>     [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#sec-white-space
>   
>       [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#sec-white-space
>   
> 8.17 Localization Quality Issue
>   
>     "locQualityIssuesRefPointer, do not apply to HTML" >
>     locQualityIssuesRefPointer does not apply to HTML
>   
>     "ITS 2.0-compliant tools that use these categories" > "ITS
>     2.0-compliant tools that use these types"
>   
>     "their internal categories" > "their internal types"
>   
>     replacing other occurences of "categories" with "types"
>   
> 8.18 Localization Quality Rating
>   
>     felix: looks fine
>   
>     dave: changed after yesterday's discussion
>   
>     <Yves_> I have to leave for the office now. I may be back
>     online in 20/30 mn (depending on how many coyotes I have to
>     fend off on the bike path)
>   
>     thanks, bye, Yves_
>   
> validation of example files
>   
>     jirka: did add a target for validation
>     ... need someone to fix the errors
>   
>     <scribe> ACTION: felix to check examples found by relax ng
>     validation [recorded in
>     [21]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
>   
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-340 - Check examples found by relax
>     ng validation [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-06].
>   
>     <scribe> ACTION: felix to check syntax highlighting of html
>     examples with focus on quotes - due 31 december [recorded in
>     [22]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
>   
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-341 - check syntax highlighting of
>     html examples with focus on quotes [on Felix Sasaki - due
>     2012-12-31].
>   
>     jirka: now have created xml validation, after last call
>     publication will work on html validation
>   
> 8.19 MT Confidence
>   
>     going through the three sections 8.19 MT Confidence, 8.20
>     Allowed Characters, 8.21 Storage size
>   
>     dave: for the example EX-mtConfidence-global-html5-1.html would
>     be good to have an example with two different attributes with
>     text content, in the same element
>     ... e.g. title and alt in an image
>   
>     <scribe> ACTION: daveL to create mt confidence score example as
>     described in
>     [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-irc#T14-50-40  - due 31
>     december [recorded in
>     [24]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
>   
>       [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-irc#T14-50-40
>   
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-342 - create mt confidence score
>     example as described in
>     [25]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-irc#T14-50-40  on David
>     Lewis - due 2012-12-31].
>   
>       [25]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-irc#T14-50-40
>   
> back to rating data category
>   
>     jirka: in spec the locQualityRatingScore value is between 0 and
>     100
>     ... yestedays call we said between 0 and 1
>     ... which one is true?
>   
>     <scribe> ACTION: felix to check with yves whether
>     locQualityRatingScore should be between 0 and 1 or 0 and 100
>     [recorded in
>     [26]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
>   
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-343 - Check with yves whether
>     locQualityRatingScore should be between 0 and 1 or 0 and 100
>     [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-06].
>   
>     action-343: also relevant for locQualityRatingScoreThreshold
>   
>     <trackbot> ACTION-343 Check with yves whether
>     locQualityRatingScore should be between 0 and 1 or 0 and 100
>     notes added
>   
> allowed characters + storage size (again)
>   
>     allowed characters looks fine
>   
>     "nel for NEXT LINE (U+0085)" - need to check code for nel
>   
>     seems to be correct
>   
>     went through all data categories, only topic left is
>     locQualityRatingScore value, see above
>   
> going back to rating value
>   
>     yves: phil mentioned that des wanted something between 0-100
>     ... from my point of view it doesn't matter
>     ... that is, the spec would be right, I didn't change it
>   
> spec editing topics
>   
>     yve: val and quote have strange behavior
>   
>     "A disambigIdentPointer attribute that contains a relative
>     selector pointing to a node that represents a unique identifier
>     for the disambiguation target." plus disambigSourcePointer
>   
>     <scribe> ACTION: felix to write mail today to tadej to confirm
>     position of disambigSourcePointer in global rules [recorded in
>     [27]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
>   
>     <trackbot> Created ACTION-344 - Write mail today to tadej to
>     confirm position of disambigSourcePointer in global rules [on
>     Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-06].
>   
> disambigSourcePointer
>   
>     <fsasaki_> need to check with tadej about this
>   
> Summary of Action Items
>   
>     [NEW] ACTION: daveL to create mt confidence score example as
>     described in
>     [28]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-irc#T14-50-40  - due 31
>     december [recorded in
>     [29]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
>     [NEW] ACTION: felix to check examples found by relax ng
>     validation [recorded in
>     [30]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
>     [NEW] ACTION: felix to check syntax highlighting of html
>     examples with focus on quotes - due 31 december [recorded in
>     [31]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
>     [NEW] ACTION: felix to check with yves whether
>     locQualityRatingScore should be between 0 and 1 or 0 and 100
>     [recorded in
>     [32]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
>     [NEW] ACTION: felix to write mail today to tadej to confirm
>     position of disambigSourcePointer in global rules [recorded in
>     [33]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
>   
>       [28]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-irc#T14-50-40
>   
>     [End of minutes]
>       __________________________________________________________
>   
>   
>      Minutes formatted by David Booth's [34]scribe.perl version
>      1.137 ([35]CVS log)
>      $Date: 2012-11-29 15:31:06 $
>       __________________________________________________________
>   
>       [34]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm  <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
>       [35]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>   
> Scribe.perl diagnostic output
>   
>     [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
> This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01
> Check for newer version at [36]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/  <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/>
> scribe/
>   
>       [36]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/  <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/>
>   
> Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
>   
> Succeeded: s/0-1/0-100/
> Found Scribe: fsasaki
> Inferring ScribeNick: fsasaki
> Present: dave felix jirka tadej karl Yves_
> Got date from IRC log name: 29 Nov 2012
> Guessing minutes URL: [37]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.ht
> ml
> People with action items: davel felix
>   
>       [37]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html
>   
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>       [38]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm  <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
>   
>
Received on Friday, 30 November 2012 12:06:52 UTC

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