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Re: Atb.: [action 265] data category specific confidence scores

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:15:22 +0100
Message-ID: <50AC8D9A.8030103@w3.org>
To: Mārcis Pinnis <marcis.pinnis@Tilde.lv>
CC: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>, dave lewis <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>, "tadej.stajner@ijs.si" <tadej.stajner@ijs.si>
Thanks, Marcis. Just to be sure: you are saying that the mtConfidence, 
disambigConfidence and termConfidence should follow a definition like this:

<simpleType name='confidence'>
   <restriction base='decimal'>
     <minInclusive value='0'/>
     <maxInclusive value='1'/>
   </restriction>
</simpleType>


Best,

Felix

Am 21.11.12 08:55, schrieb Mārcis Pinnis:
> Hi Felix,
>
> I went over the wording, there is only one thing that I find misleading and not well disambiguated.
>
> The following are all valid mathematical representations of rational numbers: 0.3; 1/3; 0.(3) ... and with locale specifics: 0,3; 0,(3)
>
> If the format specifies "a rational number in the interval 0 to 1" then all these I would assume valid (as a mathematician). Maybe the wording should be changed to: "a finite decimal number" (this would also hardcode the number base...). Maybe it is irrelevant, maybe not, but if there is already a limitation of 0 to 1, then I think there should be also a clear indication to the base and format (maybe it is possible to borrow the definition of xs:decimal http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#decimal).
>
> Best regards,
> Mārcis ;o)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:07 PM
> To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org; dave lewis; tadej.stajner@ijs.si; Mārcis Pinnis
> Subject: Re: Atb.: [action 265] data category specific confidence scores
>
> Hi Dave, Marcis, Tadej, all,
>
> Am 14.11.12 19:27, schrieb Tadej Stajner:
>> Hi, Dave, Marcis,
>> (see below)
>>
>> On 11/14/2012 5:47 PM, Dave Lewis wrote:
>>> thanks for the feedback, comment inline.
>>>
>>> On 13/11/2012 19:56, Mārcis Pinnis wrote:
>>>> Hi Dave,
>>>>
>>>> 1) I support your suggestion as drafted in the attachment.
>>>> 2) Although I believe there is a typing mistake:
>>>>
>>>> <p>And he said: you need a new <quote its:term="yes"
>>>> its-info-term-ref=”http://www.directron.com/motherboards1.html”
>>>> its-term-confidence=”0.5”>motherboard</quote></p>
>>>>
>>>> I believe its-info-term-ref should actually be its-term-info-ref?!
>>> thanks for spotting that, we'll fix it.
> This should be fixed now at
>
> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#EX-terms-selector-4
>
>>>> 3) Also, just a comment (our systems won't be affected, but...) -
>>>> why do you want to restrict the values to be from 0 to 1? In
>>>> statistics it is quite common to use also LOG-scale probabilities
>>>> (because of otherwise small numbers in some cases). Is it necessary
>>>> to restrict users to a 0 to 1 interval? I would suggest leaving the
>>>> decision up to the user's. Also - the tools will have to be
>>>> identified anyway. This means that the users will be able to
>>>> identify (if needed) from the systems how to parse (understand) the
>>>> confidence scores. This is a general question that applies to other
>>>> confidence scores as well.
>>> In general, we do not attach inter-tool significance to the
>>> confidence scores, hence the requirement to specify the tool using
>>> its-tools- ref. Normalising the score 0-1 is therefore not intended
>>> to support inter-tool comparisons, but more give the the presenting
>>> software a stable range/value to display.
>> On that note, I'd suggest explicitly adding a sentence that the scores
>> are comparable only in the context of the same tool. It might be
>> obvious to us, but it's an important point.
>
> I tried to add that to the 1st paragraph at http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#its-tool-annotation
> for terminology, mt confidence and disambiguation.
>
> Best,
>
> Felix
>
>> -- Tadej
>>
>>
>>> For Mt confidence score the concerned implementers suggested 0..1,
>>> the use of log-scale didn't come up. So for no deeper reason that
>>> consistency i'd then suggest we keep the same for term and disambig
>>> confidence scores, unless there is a pressing reason to do otherwise.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>> 4) I agree that in the current proposal it would not be reasonable
>>>> to add a confidence score as in multiple domain scenario it would be
>>>> misleading/wrong and it would require a different solution (For
>>>> instance, similar to how domains can be marked).
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Mārcis ;o)
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> No: Dave Lewis [dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie]
>>>> Nosūtīts: otrdiena, 2012. gada 13. novembrī 19:30
>>>> Kam: Multilingual Web LT Public List
>>>> Tēma: Fwd: [action 265] data category specific confidence scores
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> To try and wrap up this point:
>>>>
>>>> Summary  of Discussion so far:
>>>> 1) text analytics annotation was proposed as a way of offering a
>>>> confidence score for text analytics results. As with mtconfidence
>>>> score, the tools annotaiton is now covered by the itsTool feature,
>>>> but the proposal for confidence scores remains
>>>>
>>>> 2) Marcis pointed out, using real world terminology use cases, that
>>>> we may have several annotations operating on the same fragment, so
>>>> applying a confidence score to different text analytics annotations
>>>> with a single data category won't work in these cases because of
>>>> complete override.
>>>>
>>>> Also, if we used text analytics annotation with annotation from
>>>> other data categories we are breaking our 'no dependencies between
>>>> data category rules'.
>>>>
>>>> 3) We could overcome the complete override problems using standoff
>>>> mark up as in loc quality issue and provenance. But as confidence
>>>> score would be different for each annotated fragment, that would
>>>> result in very big stand-off records, and we would still be breaking
>>>> the data cat dependencies rule. So this doesn't seem a realistic
>>>> option
>>>>
>>>> 4) so the suggestion discussed in Lyon was to drop  text analytics
>>>> annotation altogether as a separate data category and focus on
>>>> adding confidence attributes to the existing data categories that
>>>> would benefit from it.
>>>>
>>>> so.....
>>>>
>>>> Proposal:
>>>> I therefore suggest the following and we need your feedback by
>>>> friday 16th Nov so we can wrap this up on the monday call!
>>>>
>>>> For those extended with confidence score (terminology,
>>>> disambiguation) please express your support and any comments by
>>>> friday - if we don't receive any we will definitely drop these
>>>> suggestions. Marcis, Tadej in particular, please consider review these.
>>>>
>>>> For exclusions (domain, localizationQualityissue), this is your last
>>>> chance to counter-argue in favour of including, otherwise assume
>>>> these are dropped also.
>>>>
>>>> i) confidence for terminology: as suggested by Marcis
>>>> (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012N
>>>> ov/0028.html), revised data category as word revisions attached
>>>> (addition to local definition, note on its-tools and example  38)
>>>>
>>>> ii) confidence for disambiguation: revised data category as word
>>>> revisions attached (addition to local definition, note on its-tools
>>>> and ex 52)
>>>>
>>>> iii) domain: I suggest excluding this as an annotation to which we
>>>> attach a confidence score. Its not clear that the use of text
>>>> analytics to identify domain, while feasible, actually represents a
>>>> real use case for interoperability mark-up. If use it would probably
>>>> be internalized by the MT engine. Also, since there are multiple
>>>> domain values the semantics of a single confidence score is unclear.
>>>>
>>>> iv) localizationQualityIssue: i suggest also excluding this as an
>>>> annotation to which we attach confidence scores. The use of
>>>> statistical text analytics doesn't seem common for QA tasks. One
>>>> exception is the recent innovation by digital lingusitics whose
>>>> Review Sentinel product ranks translation but a TA assessment for QA
>>>> purposes - but this innovative and not current practice, so its
>>>> probably not yet a concrete use case.
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Wednesday, 21 November 2012 08:15:45 UTC

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