Re: [ISSUE-2] Re: Strawman microdata proposal

Hi all,

a clarification question, I guess mostly to Jirka. Your examples showed one
pair of a feature and a value. Would your solutions look different if there
are several features to be expressed? Or, in "ITS" terminology, several
data categories? In XML you might have something like

<span its:translate="no" its:term="yes" its:locInfo="...">...</span>

How would that look like in an Microdata / RDFa / .. world?

At Maxime: I am aware of the documents you mention, but putting XML focused
examples like above into a reasonable form of RDFa is quite hard for a
newbee like me. Any help with concrete syntax proposals is very welcome

Felix

Am 20. März 2012 13:39 schrieb Maxime Lefrançois <maxime.lefrancois@inria.fr
>:

> I believe that:
>  - porting the ITS to the Semantic Web formalisms would be the best
> practise to represent hierarchical concepts and thus to enable simple
> reasoning,
>  - using RDFa in HTML5 would leverage the interoperability between
> existing/futur w3c standards (correct validation, easy data consumability
> by browser extensions, enhanced search engine results goo.gl/aCb2P
> , etc.)
>
> The RDF Web Applications Working Group has just announced that three of
> their documents are Candidate Recommendations: RDFa Core 1.1<http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-rdfa-core-20120313/#abstract>
> , RDFa Lite 1.1<http://%20http//www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-rdfa-lite-20120313/#abstract>
>  and XHTML+RDFa 1.1<http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-xhtml-rdfa-20120313/#abstract>
> Fabien Gandon <http://fabien.info/>, a "metadata literate", introduces Jeni
> Tennison <http://www.jenitennison.com/>'s *HTML Data Guide*:
>
> Microformats, RDFa and microdata all enable consumers to extract data from
> HTML pages. This data may be embedded within enhanced search engine
> results, exposed to users through browser extensions, aggregated across
> websites or used by scripts running within those HTML pages.
>
> This guide aims to help publishers and consumers of HTML data use it well.
> With several syntaxes and vocabularies to choose from, it provides guidance
> about how to decide which meets the publisher's or consumer's needs. It
> discusses when it is necessary to mix syntaxes and vocabularies and how to
> publish and consume data that uses multiple formats. It describes how to
> create vocabularies that can be used in multiple syntaxes and general best
> practices about the publication and consumption of HTML data.
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-data-guide/
>
> --
> fabien, inria, @fabien_gandon, http://fabien.info
>
>
>
> I recommend to have a look on the "4.2 Designing Vocabularies"
> sub-section: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-data-guide/#designing-vocabularies
>
> Maxime Lefrançois
> Ph.D. Student, INRIA - WIMMICS Team
> http://maxime-lefrancois.info
> @Max_Lefrancois <http://twitter.com/Max_Lefrancois>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *De: *"Phil Ritchie" <philr@vistatec.ie>
> *À: *"Jirka Kosek" <jirka@kosek.cz>
> *Cc: *"Felix Sasaki" <fsasaki@w3.org>, public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
> *Envoyé: *Mardi 20 Mars 2012 10:16:21
> *Objet: *Re: [ISSUE-2] Re: Strawman microdata proposal
>
>
> I'm by no means an expert here but here's my thoughts:
>
>
>    - Attributes may not allow us to describe hierarchical concepts.
>    - XML syntaxes would provide good parsable structure by may become
>    very verbose.
>
> I'm not sure I have any string preference but I suspect the more "metadata
> literate" among us will.
>
> Phil.
>
>
>
> -----Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz> wrote: -----
> To: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
> From: Jirka Kosek <jirka@kosek.cz>
> Date: 03/20/2012 08:47AM
> Cc: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org
> Subject: Re: [ISSUE-2] Re: Strawman microdata proposal
>
> On 19.3.2012 9:32, Felix Sasaki wrote:
>
> >> Any comments welcomed.
>
> Well, I have investigated more and talked to other people. For now I see
> 5 ways how to express ITS:
>
> 1) Use pure XML syntax suitable for XML and XHTML content
> <p its:locNote="...">...</p>
>
> 2) Use microdata in HTML5 as proposed in previous email
>
> 3) Use RDFa in HTML5 on which Tadej is working. I'm looking forward to
> see outcome but I think that output will be even more baroque then
> microdata as connection to the source element will have to be expressed
> as an additional triplet.
>
> 4) Use custom attributes in HTML5 prefixed with its-, eg.:
> <p its-locnote="...">...</p>
>
> This is actually sort of allowed in HTML5 spec (see
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/infrastructure.html#extensibility):
>
> "When vendor-neutral extensions to this specification are needed, either
> this specification can be updated accordingly, or an extension
> specification can be written that overrides the requirements in this
> specification. When someone applying this specification to their
> activities decides that they will recognize the requirements of such an
> extension specification, it becomes an applicable specification."
>
> Such attributes will cause no troubles in Web browsers, but page will
> raise errors in validators. We can create our own "applicable
> specification" for HTML5+ITS and then create our own validator.
>
> 5) Use data-* attributes in HTML5 like:
> <p data-its-locnote="...">...</p>
>
> This is valid in HTML5, but non-conforming as data-* attributes are
> currently reserved for application private use only (see
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/global-attributes.html#attr-data)
>
> "Custom data attributes are intended to store custom data private to the
> page or application, for which there are no more appropriate attributes
> or elements.
>
> These attributes are not intended for use by software that is
> independent of the site that uses the attributes."
>
>
> For ITS in HTML5 I think that option 4) is the best while option 5) is
> also quite good.
>
> What I think we should do now is to raise bug against HTML5 spec and ask
> for either allowing arbitrary prefix-* attributes or lifting existing
> "private use only" clause from data-* attributes.
>
> If there are no objection to such approach, I'm going to raise
> respective HTML5 bug.
>
> Jirka
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Jirka Kosek      e-mail: jirka@kosek.cz      http://xmlguru.cz
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>        Professional XML consulting and training services
>   DocBook customization, custom XSLT/XSL-FO document processing
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  OASIS DocBook TC member, W3C Invited Expert, ISO JTC1/SC34 member
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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-- 
Felix Sasaki
DFKI / W3C Fellow