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[Minutes] MLW-LT call 2012-12-17 and further info / questions

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:06:22 +0100
Message-ID: <50CF5F1E.2070803@w3.org>
To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
Hi all,

the minutes of today's call are at
http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html
and below as text. As usual some things highlighted below:

- I went through
https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open?sort=due
and tried to make a reasonable timing for action items; let the 
co-chairs know if something doesn't work time wise.
Esp. the action item owners for EC project report information: if not 
done yet please send the info to Arle. Arle and I will go through your 
input this week and need it asap.

- We closed issue-58, issue-59, issue-60 and issue-62 on the call, see 
latest state of last call comments at 
http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling

- Naoto, are you OK with closing issue-61 saying that this will be 
handled during the sec 1-2 work from Christian (see action-377) and others?

- We are close to have a complete M2; on Tuesday Dom will send out 
reminder mails to items still missing.

- I will issue a call for additional, partially manual test cases needed 
by the rfc 2119 statements, see action-374

- Pedro had a question on how to provide comments on the last call 
draft. You may point people to this mail
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html
and the "status of this document" section at 
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#status
for more guidance


Best,

Felix


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                                MLW-LT WG

17 Dec 2012

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0075.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Arle, felix, kfritsche, ankit, georgios, DomJones,
           daveL, olaf-michael, tadej, naoto, shaun, leroy, daveL,
           yves, petasis, jirka, mauricio, clemens, mdelolmo,
           omstefanov, philr, pnietoca, Milan, Des, Pedro, chriLi

    Regrets
           jörg, Ma-rcis, davidF

    Chair
           felix

    Scribe
           daveL, fsasaki

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]roll call
          2. [6]Test suite and milestone update
          3. [7]Yves' proposal to compile test results
          4. [8]Need to clarify domain handling of dublicates
          5. [9]Contacts for LC
          6. [10]Last call issues
          7. [11]issue-63
          8. [12]best practices and sec. 1-2 update
          9. [13]Prague f2f and next year planning
         10. [14]EU project action items
      * [15]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

roll call

    <fsasaki> checking attendance ...

    <fsasaki> agenda here
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2012Dec/0075.html

      [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0075.html

Test suite and milestone update

    <fsasaki>
    [17]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG
    5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0

      [17] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0

    felix: today was deadline for test milestone M2, to have each
    partners attempted at least one of each type of feature test
    they are planning

    <DomJones1> q

    felix: thanks for everyone on working to progress in advancing
    to the test suite

    dom: show screen with progress spread sheet
    ... reviews status, noting there are some short delays which
    have been agreed
    ... des and tidle have delays and need a revised M2 date to be
    agreed with co-chairs
    ... ruby being done in TCD, seems OK
    ... milan has delay, tadej has a delay
    ... need to discuss local filter with DCU
    ... prov test is still shakey, leroy is checking
    ... logrus with locqualissue need to be resolved
    ... mt confidence OK
    ... cocomore need to complete allowed char
    ... overall happy that progress is good, but need to
    communicate with outstanding tests tomorrow.

    Felix; agree, keep cochair posted

    Dom: highlighted that the complete test deadline in end Jan, so
    really not far off

    felix: we should allocate plenty of time at prague meeting for
    test suite

    dom: also note at march EU review we should have 80%
    conformance in actual implementations

    felix: as yves pointed out, should have some way of comparing
    results on web site

    <pnietoca> sorry my microphone is not not working again, I'll
    try to use Mauricio's

    dom: for M2 and M3 we need people to perform their own check,
    but we will need to put up all the outputs and do
    authoritative, verifiable test

    felix: online test would be really good

    leroy; we can provide online test

    dom: so we will deliver in new year

    <scribe> ACTION: leroy to provide online diff service so posted
    output can be checked [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-373 - Provide online diff service so
    posted output can be checked [on Leroy Finn - due 2012-12-24].

    Dom: Dom and Leroy will be unavailable for two weeks over
    chirstmas

    <DomJones1> Dom and Leroy away from 22nd December to the 7th of
    January

Yves' proposal to compile test results

    <fsasaki>
    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-tests/2012Dec/0097.html

      [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Dec/0097.html

    yves: idea is that final test page was generated automatically
    for ITS1.0, so that would be good for 2.0

    <fsasaki> [20]http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/

      [20] http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/

    yves: i will look at this over holidays

    dom: does this just diff the input and output?

    felix; yes it just compared files and provide a green flag if
    it works

    scribe: so this could be done with the diff service mentioned
    earlier as a batch over all current test input files and
    submitted output files

    Dom; we will look at this as part of last action itme

Need to clarify domain handling of dublicates

    <fsasaki>
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-tests/2012Dec/0128.html

      [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Dec/0128.html

    yves: during testing looked at wider coverage of domain test,
    with different capitalisations
    ... should these be different tests?

    mdelolmo: not sure this makes a difference in terms of use
    cases, but no problem having duplicate files

    yves: resolution to keep tests with and without capitalisation
    ... there are these test cases, and some others missing from
    coverage.
    ... should we just let Leroy know?

    Leroy: just let me know once the test input is done, and i will
    update the parser

    <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki

    daveL: are we still missing test cases with the MUST
    statements?

    <scribe> scribe: daveL

    <fsasaki>
    [22]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Own
    ership_of_rfc2119_statements

      [22] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ownership_of_rfc2119_statements

    felix: many of these tests still need to be added, e.g. with
    annotation and locqualissue
    ... so we definitely need these tests
    ... and people need to make sure they allocate implementer time
    for these in Jan and feb

    phil: has a look at locqulissue one, and found useful doc on
    tests for MUSTs
    ... but it was difficult to see how manual tests could be
    formulates

    action; felix to distribute action items to define these tests
    and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests
    against rcf2119 table

    <scribe> ACTION: felix to distribute action items to define
    these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these
    tests against rcf2119 table [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-374 - Distribute action items to
    define these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate
    these tests against rcf2119 table [on Felix Sasaki - due
    2012-12-24].

Contacts for LC

    <fsasaki>
    [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2012Dec/0071.html

      [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0071.html

    felix: thanks for finding people to contact
    ... but we won't share lists since some contacts are
    confidential
    ... asks Yves to handle LC reviews to OKAPI community

    Yves: agrees

    Felix: asloXTM

    dave: I will handle this with andy zydron

    felix; will des lead contact with systrans

    des: agrees

    felix: please let neives know if you receive specific
    committments to review

    <fsasaki>
    [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2012Dec/0025.html

      [25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html

    des: is there a proforma for requesting

    felix: posts proforma, and arle did some also.
    ... david was doing a more business oriented one, but is off
    ill

    pedro: will nieves contact people directly?

    felix; nieves will NOT contact there people, only tracking who
    we are contacting

    <fsasaki>
    [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2012Dec/0025.html

      [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html

    scribe: the best if people contact them directly.

    felix: I'm happy to contact the specific people whose details
    pedro provided

    pedro: had contacted them already, but they just need the
    details of how to submit

    felix: the email pasted above, has details of email address
    where to send comments

Last call issues

    <fsasaki> [27]http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling

      [27] http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling

    felix: these issues raised already by people within the WG
    ... issue-58, an example to be fixed in a version value

    <fsasaki>
    [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2012Dec/0060.html

      [28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0060.html

    felix: issues-59, a sentence about pointing and adding,
    resolved by clarifying a sentence circumstance when it is
    mutually exclusive
    ... in two section as per above emial

    <fsasaki>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2012Dec/0022.html

      [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0022.html

    <fsasaki>
    [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2012Dec/0031.html

      [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0031.html

    felix: issue-60 loc qual type, with resolution as per above
    email -which didn't require new type

    <fsasaki>
    [31]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#lqissue-typevalues >

      [31] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqissue-typevalues

    felix: jorg followed up with clarification for labelling of the
    type value table
    ... which is now changed.

    <fsasaki>
    [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2012Dec/0025.html

      [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0025.html

    felix: issue-62 standoff markup for global rules

    <fsasaki>
    [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2012Dec/att-0025/global-lqissue-clarification.pdf

      [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/att-0025/global-lqissue-clarification.pdf

    <fsasaki>
    [34]http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#lqissue-implem
    entation

      [34] http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#lqissue-implementation

    felix: could use standoff and global attributes, which doesn't
    make sense since this isn't the case for local
    ... this has now been changed in the schema, though it didn't
    need a change to the examples
    ... any further question on these, or can they be closed?

    <fsasaki> 58, 59, 60, 62

    No objections

    felix: issue-63 on loc qual type conformance

issue-63

    <fsasaki>
    [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt-comments/2012Dec/0030.html

      [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0030.html

    phil: on this, in cngl we worked on some automated linguistic
    target qa, based on comparison to reference corpus
    ... so it is different to the distinct techniques for specific
    errors as per other types
    ... conformance is a term that gives a numeric value to compare
    target against a reference corpus
    ... so it may be useful to have

    yves: how is this different to loc quality rating?

    phil: rating is more formulaic way of computing a rating from
    other issues, whereas the conformance quality is very useful at
    segment level

    yves: where would the value go, in the severity

    phil; yes

    felix: would like to delay the decision unitl after chistma

    <scribe> ACTION: felix to raise issue-63 again in the 7th jan
    call [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-375 - Raise issue-63 again in the 7th
    jan call [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-24].

best practices and sec. 1-2 update

    <fsasaki>
    [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2012Dec/0072.html

      [37] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0072.html

    felix: discussed this last week
    ... both how to cover section 1 and 2 and also on best
    practices
    ... are people happy for christian to edit quite freely

    <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki

    daveL: would be happy to know what the time frame the rewriting
    would be on
    ... david and I wanted to look into this too
    ... need to coordinate things

    <daveL> christian: what time frame would fit best.

    daveL: for me after january 15 would be good
    ... if you want to work on it now, and we hand it over

    <daveL> ACTION: chriLi to provide rewrite of section 1and 2 by
    mid Jan [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

    This is now [39]action-377

      [39] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/377

    <daveL> felix: best practice draft and high level use cases

    <daveL> .. if anyone want to work on this over christmas,
    otherwise i will try and pull these together

    <daveL> ACTION: felix to pull this material on best practice
    together onto wiki for people to comment on [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-376 - Pull this material on best
    practice together onto wiki for people to comment on [on Felix
    Sasaki - due 2012-12-24].

Prague f2f and next year planning

    <daveL> felix: prague face to face planning will be mostly for
    testing and last minute comments, planning for later in year
    will be discussed in Rome

    [41]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
    ctions/open

      [41] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open

    <daveL> felix: I wish those leaving now a very Merry Christmas!

EU project action items

    <daveL> fleix; arle, who do we still need input from

    <daveL> arle: still need to assemble what is still missing

    <daveL> felix: we need to compile this by wednesday

    <daveL> ... so please everyone check if they are missing some
    information from actions.

    <omstefanov> A Merry Christmas and a "Guten Rutsch" to you,
    Felix and to the other chairs!

    <pnietoca> thank you! Merry Chritsmas to all!

    <omstefanov> Merry Christmas to all!

    you too, olaf!

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: chriLi to provide rewrite of section 1and 2 by
    mid Jan [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to distribute action items to define these
    tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests
    against rcf2119 table [recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to pull this material on best practice
    together onto wiki for people to comment on [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to raise issue-63 again in the 7th jan call
    [recorded in
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: leroy to provide online diff service so posted
    output can be checked [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


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