- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 22:44:41 +0100
- To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
- CC: Nieves Sande <nieves.sande@dfki.de>
- Message-ID: <50C657C9.2070103@w3.org>
Hi all,
below are the minutes of today's call and a few pieces highlighted /
summarized. I very much hope that I got the attendance right, if not
please let me know.
1)
About the MUST and MUST NOT statements: thansk a lot to Olaf-Michael for
your comments. At
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ownership_of_rfc2119_statements
there is now an updated version. Can I ask the following people to
contribute or to work on tests together:
- provenance: Dave, Phil, Pedro
- terminology: Marcis, Yves
- language information: Declan / Ankit, Philip (UL)
- domain: Tadej, Milan
- Id Value: Yves, Philipp, Shaun
- Localization Quality Issue: Arle, Phil, Serge, Yves
- MT Confidence: Declan, Yves
- Allowed Characters: Philip, Karl
Please provide by next week's call an info when you will have the
related tests. The bottom line should be
- try to provide tests that can be used in the test suite framework
developed by Leroy, Dom et al.
- review the existing tests for "your" data categories
- if the tests don't fit into the framework, let the group know how you
are going to provide them, e.g.: input file + human readable description
what the test assertion is
I'd encourage especially people to support Leroy. He is doing a
tremendous job in updating the test suite, but he deserves a lot of help
from the data category "drivers", see list above. Please be prepared to
let us know during next week's call how you can contribute, or better:
contribute before on public-multilingualweb-lt-tests@w3.org.
2) Various topics related to the minutes and ITS2.0 last call outreach
- Olaf-Michael said about the review of the last call draft: "I can
distribute it to JIAMCATT, please share your text with me". Folks,
please send to the list whatever you can share.
- Declan said at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0054.html
that he can send a request for comments to
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/catmt/?yguid=41785865
which I think would be great.
- Jirka, you wrote at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0051.html
that from the HTML folks probably we won't get a a consensus answer -
which very likely is true. I might send out an individual mail then, let
me know if you want to do that.
- We are still missing people reaching out to the "content" CMS side of
things - Clemens & Karl, can you help with that?
I'm putting Nieves into CC so that she can help with tracking the
potential overlap(s).
3)
Related to LT-Web: as said on the call: owners of action items
action-346, action-347, action-348, action-349, action-350, action-351,
action-352, action-353, action-354 (me :) ), please send the info for
the annual report asap to Arle, but not later than end of this week.
Thanks a lot for your input in advance.
Best,
Felix
MINUTES:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
MLW-LT WG
10 Dec 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0042.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-irc
Attendees
Present
daveL, dF, fsasaki, kfritsche, mdelolmo, leroy, philr,
Jirka, Ankit, Arle, Yves_, chriLi, clemens, joerg,
olaf-michael, pnietoca, Milan, serge, tadej, naoto, des
Regrets
dom
Chair
Felix
Scribe
dF
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]roll call
2. [6]Outreach to get LC feedback
3. [7]handling of last call comments
4. [8]Work items needed on the draft
5. [9]tests needed
6. [10]best practices topics
7. [11]testing / milestones
* [12]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
roll call
<fsasaki> checking attendees ...
<fsasaki> scribe: dF
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Dec/0042.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0042.html
fsasaki: comments on agenda?
fsasaki: no comments on agenda
Outreach to get LC feedback
fsasaki: ... announcement through linkedIn dicussed
... but we now prefer direct contact
... it is importnat to get feedback from the right people to
specific sections
... DFKI is tracking the call for reviews
... e.g. mtConfidence by MT people
... It is very bad if you get many hundreds of comments
... but it is also bad to get only a few dozen. This might
indicate to the w3c mgmt that the public is not interested
daveL: reaching out to specific people and also re
implementation interest
... the goal is to get feedback re usability
fsasaski: Those are good points: implementations and usability
daveL: Do we have some wording for the public announcement?
<fsasaki>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Dec/0025.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html
daveL: technical people might be busy, but if they bosses see
the announcement, it might help drive the reviews
fsasaki: I posted link to announcement for tech audience, but
can be tweaked
<omstefanov> I can distribute it to JIAMCATT, but please, you
guys, share your texts with me/us.
<scribe> ACTION: dF to tweak the text for business audience
[recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-363 - Tweak the text for business
audience [on David Filip - due 2012-12-17].
<fsasaki> ACTION: arle to nudge serge to send text about last
call announcement to arle [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-364 - Nudge serge to send text about
last call announcement to arle [on Arle Lommel - due
2012-12-17].
fsasaki: another outreach effort before xmas
... localization professionals group on linkedIn
Arle: we do not want to confuse people
... this week we should post on the mlw workshop in March
... next week for public review
Serge: I would have it the other way round, since there is
plenty of time till March
Felix: This is important to announce before xmas break to boost
speakers
Conclusion was that this week there will be the ITS 2.0 last
call announcement on linkedin, and next week the March workshop
announcement.
handling of last call comments
<fsasaki>
[17]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Com
ments_Handling
[17] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Comments_Handling
fsasaki: People need to be aware of the comment answering
process, it is a painful process but very important
... se the wiki page on the posted link
... the whole WG is automatically on the comment list.
<fsasaki>
[18]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Com
ments_Handling#Processing_of_comments
[18] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Comments_Handling#Processing_of_comments
fsasaki: everyone who is not yet formally on the WG should
subscribe to the comments list
... Every comment receives a new Issue on the tracker, same as
we were tracking the issues bfeore LC
... we now need to be very careful to have track record on
changes
daveL: Do we really have distinct issue for every comment, or
can we group?
fsasaki: the baseline is that we need to document resolutions
along with comment submitter e-mail reactions
... there is no rule on grouping, but it may be as well easier
to track them individually even if similar
daveL: What if they are distracted and do not reply back after
we've made changes
fsasaki: again no clear rule..
<fsasaki>
[19]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Com
ments_Handling#Tracker_handling
[19] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Comments_Handling#Tracker_handling
fsasaki: but if they do not come back within a reasonable
timeframe we are OK with documenting that we've tried to get
the response
... The tracker handling link (see above) is mainly for
co-chairs, as we need to keep track of the comments, can add
notes, kewords
... to keep track
<fsasaki>
[20]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Com
ments_Handling#Generation_of_Disposition_of_Comments
[20] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Comments_Handling#Generation_of_Disposition_of_Comments
fsasaki: the keywords in the wiki are important for disposition
of comments
<fsasaki> [21]http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling
[21] http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling
fsasaki: using this keywords we create a DB dump that is
displayed via an XSLT
... this is just an example, as we did not have LC comments
yet, this is just to show how the keywords work
... I am going to update this style sheet so that it reflects
the LC
... we have two WG commnets from Yves
... we might find time to cover them today
... at the end of LC we will have a document with all comments
resolved, accepted or rejected and all changes editorial, NOT
substantial
... it is important to be structured and keep track of the
issue #
daveL: substantive change would require new LC?
fsasaki: yes, it would mean at least 3 week delay, and we do
need to wait to the end of the first last call and dicpose of
all commnets before issuing a new one
... it actually would not save time, to jump to new LC before
disposing of ALL comments from the previous LC
<Yves_> yes
Work items needed on the draft
fsasaki: In LC we mean that normative sections are stable
... but sections 1 and 2 are not stable
... Christian sent comments to co-editors
... explanatory material also needs to be right
<fsasaki> * edit together. in various online editing calls.
fsasaki: we need to decide on plan for editong these
explanatory sections with Christian's comments
<fsasaki> * find heros who can go through the sections and send
the outcome to the group
fsasaki: editing together works well, but takes a lot of time
of many people..
... wee need volunteer heroes who first edit off line
daveL: we need volunteers to look at the content along with
Christian's comments in advance of an editing call
... I'd be happy to take a few, but not before xmas
Phil: I'd take the quality sections
fsasaki: these are not under discussion now
... could someone start the work before xmas?
<fsasaki> "sections 1-2"
Naoto: are we talking introduction and basic concepts?
... I read through it today, I found typos
fsasaki: can you send the typos?
<scribe> ACTION: Naoto: to compile comments on sections 1 and 2
along with Christians comments and to send to comment list
[recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-366 - Compile comments on sections 1
and 2 along with Christians comments and to send to comment
list [on Naoto Nishio - due 2012-12-17].
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to look into Naoto's edits and other
fedback from Aron with Opera [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-367 - Look into Naoto's edits and
other fedback from Aron with Opera [on Felix Sasaki - due
2012-12-17].
Christian: Whatever creates less noice, happy to resolve with
co-editors
fsasaki: I propose to move the above till the end of the year
... everybody OK with that?
tests needed
Phil: This makes sense
fsasaki: I created a wiki page re testing
<fsasaki>
[24]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Own
ership_of_rfc2119_statements
[24] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ownership_of_rfc2119_statements
fsasaki: Olaf had input on that, thanks
... this is autogenerated
... the wiki markup is bad..
the baseline it is a table of MUST and MUST NOT statements
scribe: each has a separate row
... column 4 is importnat
... data category owners need to provide tests
... most of the statements are covered with testsuite or schema
... some are not, we need a good stror for them
... we need to explain how to verify these..
... it is not always possible to have a test in the current
test suite framework.
... There should be always a good story, why something is not
tested
Olaf: you saw from my e-mail that about quarter is identical
... I see now that it is because of being auto-generated..
... pruning down would ease going trough it
fsasaki: we are looking for somebody to do the testing for each
row
... but testing might not be always required
... feedback on quality from Daniel
... generated many MUST statements that are hard to test in a
machine readable way
... still there is a way how to verify, e.g. have examples for
human judgement
... is this answer OK?
Olaf: I understand
<scribe> ACTION: felix to downsize the table [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-370 - Downsize the table [on Felix
Sasaki - due 2012-12-17].
fsasaki: looking for volunteers to address rows
<Arle> Arle for quality rows
fsasaki: please type your name in IRC aginst data categories
<scribe> ACTION: Arle to dispose of quality related rows in the
table [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action10]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-371 - Dispose of quality related rows
in the table [on Arle Lommel - due 2012-12-17].
Phil: still unclear, would we provide example files?
fsasaki: Eve with example files, the machine test might not be
possible..
... how could a machine decide if something is e.g.
semantically acurate
... we can define test for human testers
... is it clear?
Phil: It is
... Lot of quality related rows, is that a generation issues?
fsasaki: This is due to automatic generation, not very useful
in the current state..
<philr> I will take a look at the 5 or 6 loc quality related
ones.
<scribe> ACTION: Phil to dispose of quality issues related ones
[recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action11]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-372 - Dispose of quality issues
related ones [on Phil Ritchie - due 2012-12-17].
daveL: we probaly have the positive statements covered by the
test suite
... we probably also need to go through the negative
best practices topics
<fsasaki>
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Dec/0040.html
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0040.html
<fsasaki>
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
lt/2012Dec/0041.html
[29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0041.html
fsasaki: various areas, e.g. ITS to XLIFF mapping
... se the posted link..
... BP are not mandatory
... they need manpower
... if someone needs editing set up, please contact co-chairs
Arle: I will work on quality
fsasaki: quality is not yet on the list
Arle: I need to work on it anything for QT launchpad, so thet
group gets it for free..
<Clemens> Felix, I've to go... is there something you need me
for, now?
fsasaki: The WG is not just publication cahnnel
... it is a time consuming process
... even though not nornmative it needs to be drafted, reviewed
and OKed by the group
daveL: I agree we do not try and revive the requirements
document
... we should adress high level use cases
... I'd look into provenance..
... Another worthu topic would be integration of text analytics
into MT
testing / milestones
<fsasaki>
[30]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG
5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
[30] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
fsasaki: this is the latest state of testing commitments
... thanks for testing webinar to Dom and leroy
... next milestone is Dec 17
... Does any one have issue with the next week milestone?
... The alternatives are one category completely
Phill: We are in good shape
<Fredrik> Fredrik: It's ok with Enlaso
fsasaki: Please report if you have issue with the milestone
Olaf: Does it mean to get to all gree by next week?
fsasaki: no, we have milestones
... implementation plan is not about the colours at this stage,
but about meeting the milestones as sepcified above the table
... we want conformant tests, but now it is about making
progress
... Other items we can address next week
<fsasaki>
[31]https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/a
ctions/open
[31] https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open
fsasaki: Arle posted a draft
... now looking into action items
... feedback for annual report
... many are due today
... does that work for everyone?
Phil: I sent a Google doc last week
fsasaki: it is not important to have loads of stuff, one or two
paragraphs is OK
Arle: no template
... just vanila html
fsasaki: Arle, can you post the link again?
<Arle>
[32]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/2012-ann
ual-report/
[32] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/2012-annual-report/
Des: due date?
Arle: nothing specifically from you, unless you really want
to..
... this is for section leaders
... in the LT-Web
I can do it by Wed COB
fsasaki: AOB?
... next week we will continue LC comments and Christian
commnets to non-nomative stuff
... AOB?
... Adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Arle to dispose of quality related rows in the
table [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: arle to nudge serge to send text about last call
announcement to arle [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: dF to tweak the text for business audience
[recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to downsize the table [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to look into Naoto's edits and other
fedback from Aron with Opera [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Naoto: to compile comments on sections 1 and 2
along with Christians comments and to send to comment list
[recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Phil to dispose of quality issues related ones
[recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action11]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Monday, 10 December 2012 21:45:11 UTC