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Re: [all] suggestions for consolidating requirements

From: David Lewis <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 01:36:00 +0100
Message-ID: <4F9B3B70.9000200@cs.tcd.ie>
To: public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org, shaunm@gnome.org
Hi Shaun,
See recent post 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Apr/0142.html 
on consolidation of these two suggesting something similar to what you 
outline here. Let us know what you think.

Concerning PO files, these haven't really been in the frame for the WG 
to date, as we've focussed more on XLIFF as the localisation information 
exchange format. However, PO files seem a significant use case, so it 
might be helpful if you could provide some pointers to the group on the 
structure and use of POT and PO files. Any mapping between ITS and PO, 
as with ITS and XLIFF would probably not be normative, and as with 
everything, the effort expended will reflect the commitment to provide 
implementations. But at the same time if we can avoid inadvertently 
making such a mapping intractable, by a proper understanding of what's 
involved, we should do so.

cheers,
Dave

On 27/04/2012 23:20, Shaun McCance wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-04-26 at 13:23 +0100, David Lewis wrote:
>> DaveL, Moritz: Could localeSpecificContent be consolidated with
>> dropRule, e.g. specifying the content should be drops for specific
>> locales, for every translation, or for every translation except
>> specified locales?
> I'll weigh in on this, as the person behind dropRule. I think dropRule
> might be redundant with localeSpecificContent, depending on how the
> processing expectation are defined. In fact, I'd considered proposing
> exactly this earlier.
>
> localeSpecificContent is more powerful, of course, and can be used to
> exclude something only from certain translations.
>
> To understand how dropRule is implemented in itstool, and how I would
> implement localeSpecificContent, let me outline the workflow:
>
> A) People write XML source content, possibly augmented with custom
>     ITS rules and attributes.
> B) We generate a POT file from the source content using built-in ITS
>     rules plus any custom rules or attributes. A POT file is not tied
>     to any language. It just contains the strings to translate along
>     with some metadata about the strings.
> C) Translators either create a PO file from the POT file, or they
>     merge the POT file with their existing PO file. PO files are where
>     actual translations are kept. There's one PO file per language.
>     They do whatever they do to make good translations.
> D) We extract the translated strings from the PO files and rewrite
>     the source XML files, again applying ITS rules to see what to
>     apply where.
>
> I know a lot of the new stuff being worked on by the working group
> deals with what happens in (C), but everything for this (and really,
> for ITS 1.0 in general) is in (B) and (D). Here's what happens with
> dropRule:
>
> B) Dropped content is effectively treated as non-translatable content,
>     and is not included in the POT file.
> D) Dropped content is actually dropped from the info set when content
>     is merged from the PO files.
>
> With localeSpecificContent, I can't do the same thing in (B), because
> I'm generating a template file used by all translations. I can put a
> comment on the string to the effect of "This string will only be used
> by ... translations." I can do the same thing in (D).
>
> *However*, one of the messy bits of reality I've had to deal with in
> itstool is that the language codes used in XML are not the same as
> the POSIX locale codes used on GNU/Linux and Unix-like systems. I get
> PO files with a POSIX locale specified, and I have to convert that to
> a BCP47 language tag for e.g. xml:lang attributes.
>
> As a result, I already have special handling for the identifier "C",
> which in POSIX locales means "whatever the source language is". So
> at least for itstool users, I know that none of the translations are
> in the "C" locale. That means I can reliably drop strings from the
> POT files in (B) with this:
>
> <its:localeSpecificContent selector="//mal:comment" locale="C"/>
>
> So basically, if the specification for localeSpecificContent is
> worded in a way that makes what I've outlined here conformant,
> then I don't need dropRule.
>
> Postscript: Language and locale often get jumbled up, but I don't
> personally think any of this has anything to do with locales. This
> is about language-specific content, and the locale attribute holds
> a list of language tags.
>
> --
> Shaun
>
>
>
Received on Saturday, 28 April 2012 00:36:28 UTC

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