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Re: [ISSUE-84]: ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian [Indic] languages, was: Re: ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian languages plus new comments on www-international list

From: Dave Lewis <dave.lewis@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 23:03:58 +0000
Message-ID: <50FF1ADE.1010800@cs.tcd.ie>
To: public-multilingualweb-lt-comments@w3.org
Hi Somnath,
I'd like to respond in more detail about your comment on the need for 
some transliteration support in relation to the use of the translate 
data category for Indic languages.

Such a requirement was in fact identified by the WG at the requirements 
gathering stage, see the requirement document:
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Requirements#autoLanguageProcessingRule

This proposal took the form of a separate data category, specifically to 
indicate that the selected content should be transliterated. However, 
there was not at the time a strong enough drive from anyone to implement 
such a data category, so it was not moved forward into the specification.

As I recall, the discussion was that while it was important to indicate 
_whether_ text needed to be translated or not, there was not a strong 
use case for indicating _how_ it should be translated (e.g. human 
translation, machine translation, transliteration, pseudotransaltion). 
The 'how' was typically left to the descretion of the translation 
service provider, within the parameters of translation project (e.g. 
timing, quality, cost etc). Such parameters were generally considered 
outside the scope of ITS since they relate to service level and 
contractual agreements that would be too competitively sensitive to 
yield good interoperability use cases.

Note that such a separate transliteration data category was the a 
preferred solution as opposed to adding an attribute to the translate 
data category. This is because the latter would impact negatively both 
on the backward compatibiltiy of this data category with its use in 
ITS1.0 as well as on the direct mapping of this data category to the 
translate attribute now included in the HTML5 specification - both of 
which are seen as important to the easy uptake of ITS2.0.

It is probably therefore quite late in the process to reconsider 
reintroducing a transliteration data category. However, to understand 
and record your requirements more completely, is there a specific use 
case where a translator would need to be instructed on whether to 
translate or transliterate some text, or would translators typically be 
the ones to make this decision?

Please let us know if you find this response satisfactory. I'd encourage 
anyone else in the WG with in interest in this issue to add their input 
to resolvign this issue (Yves, Shaun, I think you were involved in the 
original discussions).

Kind Regards,
Dave Lewis

On 21/01/2013 15:02, Dave Lewis wrote:
> Hi,
> To speed the resolution of the different issues in your original post 
> I'll restricted ISSUE-84 to comments about the translate data category 
> and raised two new issues:
> ISSUE-108: locNote ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian [Indic] languages
> ISSUE-109: disambiguation ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian [Indic] 
> languages
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On 18/01/2013 12:46, Dr. David Filip wrote:
>> Hi all, this comment is now associated with Issue-84
>> Rgds
>> dF
>>
>> Dr. David Filip
>> =======================
>> LRC | CNGL | LT-Web | CSIS
>> University of Limerick, Ireland
>> telephone: +353-6120-2781
>> *cellphone: +353-86-0222-158*
>> facsimile: +353-6120-2734
>> mailto: david.filip@ul.ie <mailto:david.filip@ul.ie>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org 
>> <mailto:fsasaki@w3.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Forwarded on behalf of Somnath Chandra (by permission), with CC
>>     to Somnath and Svaran Lata.The comments are not yet in tracker.
>>     See also new comments (also not in tracker yet) on the
>>     www-international list at
>>     http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013JanMar/0065.html
>>
>>     If you have input for replying to the comments, please provide it
>>     on our comments list (but feel free to put others in CC to speed
>>     up the process).
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Felix
>>
>>
>>     -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>>     Betreff: 	Fwd: ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian languages
>>     Datum: 	Wed, 16 Jan 2013 13:46:52 +0530
>>     Von: 	Somnath Chandra <schandra@deity.gov.in>
>>     <mailto:schandra@deity.gov.in>
>>     An: 	Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> <mailto:fsasaki@w3.org>
>>     Kopie (CC): 	slata <slata@mit.gov.in> <mailto:slata@mit.gov.in>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Dear Dr. Felix Sasaki,
>>     W3C India has compiled the Indic Languages requirements for ITS
>>     2.0. Kindly find enclosed the draft document developed for the
>>     purpose.
>>     Submitted for kind perusal. Please feel free to contact me for
>>     any further clarifications / discussions.
>>     With best regards,
>>     Somnath , W3C India
>>     Dr. Somnath Chandra
>>     Joint Director and Dy. Country Manager , W3C India
>>     Dept. of Electronics & Information Technology
>>     Ministry of Communications & Information Technology
>>     Govt. of India
>>     Tel:+91-11-24364744,24301811
>>     Fax: +91-11-24363099 <tel:%2B91-11-24363099>
>>     e-mail :schandra@mit.gov.in <mailto:schandra@mit.gov.in>
>>     -------- Original Message --------
>>     From: *Prashant Verma *<vermaprashant1@gmail.com>
>>     <mailto:vermaprashant1@gmail.com>
>>     Date: Jan 10, 2013 2:20:32 PM
>>     Subject: ITS 2.0 requirements w.r.t Indian languages
>>     To: schandra@mit.gov.in <mailto:schandra@mit.gov.in>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>
>>     Prashant Verma I  Sr. Software Engineer
>>     W3C India
>>     New Delhi
>>     Cell : +91-8800521042 <tel:%2B91-8800521042>
>>     Website : http://www.w3cindia.in <http://www.w3cindia.in/>
>>     --
>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Tuesday, 22 January 2013 23:04:38 UTC

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