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[minutes] Tuesday May 29 teleconf

From: Dominique Hazael-Massieux <dom@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 16:44:59 +0200
To: public-mobileok-checker <public-mobileok-checker@w3.org>
Message-Id: <1180449900.6202.17.camel@altostratustier>

Hi,

The minutes of our call today are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-bpwg-minutes.html

and copied as text below.

Dom


             mobileOK Basic ref implementation task force

29 May 2007

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007May/0122.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-bpwg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Sean_Owen, abel, Miguel, jo, dom, ruadhan

   Regrets
          Roland, Nacho

   Chair
          Sean

   Scribe
          Jo

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]CTIC Document
         2. [6]DTDs
         3. [7]aob
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <dom> [9]Previous minutes 22 May 2007

      [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007May/0089.html

   <srowen> (hmm wonder if Roland or Dom is joining? if not we may have
   all our attendees)

   <scribe> scribenick: jo

   <scribe> Scribe: Jo

CTIC Document

   <dom> [10]A study about third parties tools regarding mobileOK
   checker, by the CTIC guys

     [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobileok-checker/2007May/att-0087/thirdparties_study.html

   Sean: can you talk us through it

   <abel> [11]http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhbw7zt7_0f8w6bq

     [11] http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhbw7zt7_0f8w6bq

   Abel: we looked at the thrid party tools in relation to moki
   ... tidy etc.
   ... it's desirable to make the moki document independent of the the
   particualr third party tools in use
   ... we looked at Tag Soup, but there is a problem - it doesn't
   record error output
   ... or tell you what repairs it has done
   ... there are other tools, (Sean proposed them in an email)
   ... does anyone have anything to add?

   Sean: I agree we need to have a way of reporting errors and problems
   - they are all different and don't expose their errors in a clean
   and consistent way
   ... not so worried about Tag Soup
   ... e.g. Jhove will be reporting all kinds of errors
   ... so what do we do with them
   ... I'd prefer not to modify the source code
   ... do we need to maintain a mapping between exceptions and strings
   ...
   ... it is a bit fragile
   ... but may be the only way of doing it
   ... similar approach to what Roland checked in with a load of error
   strings
   ... so how can we map from the errors
   ... do we need a framework?

   jo: I have done UTF-8/HTML validation with JHOVE. a bit
   disappointing

   jo: UTF-8 errors are reasonable; have a byte offset as a structured
   value

   jo: XHTML doesn't and its errors are fairly inscrutable

   want location info and internationalized strings

   we also want it to continue parsing for errors

   Ruadhan, XHTML error messages from ready.mobi are handy -- so we can
   get this info out of the standard library?

   ruadhan: yeah we get line and col numbers, can be misleading
   sometimes

   <srowen> example: using attributes in DTDs

   jo: looks like we need friendlier tools

   <Zakim> jo, you wanted to comment on TagSoup

   otherwise we're faced with modifying JHOVE and don't want to do that

   don't worry just now, but let's not hold up on the rest of the
   framework

   jo: on tagsoup, I think we'll have to dive into this more. Not good
   at preserving DTD for example

   sean: agree with Jo, and if Jhove is not useful and the standard
   library is for XHTML then let's
   ... just use that
   ... not so worried about Tag Soup - it's a bonus anyway
   ... on error reporting, I like the framework from Roland on error
   reporting
   ... and we should adopt that
   ... and how do we map between module error reporting and our error
   reporting
   ... it may be difficult to come up with a generic framework
   ... let's not hold it up too much

   jo: do you mean in the intermediate doc, I assume so

   sean: hmmm, a lot of the work is done early on
   ... so you have to pass it through that doc

   jo: I think that the moki doc can be the place to put all necessary
   info

   sean: moki can put "no errors" - if validation failed why and where
   ... you say there is already a structure for this in your porposed
   format

   jo: yes
   ... if you are going to grovel through libraries to find the string
   literals then you may as well change the code to report in a mroe
   sensible way

   sean: any more comments on error reporting and handling?
   ... if not let us set this aside a little bit, we need to dig into
   the code
   ... we do want to avoid modifying the source code if we can
   ... we will need a way of mapping error reporting into final strings
   ... need to use the moki document format to transmit errors between
   phases
   ... moving on
   ... more on Jhove and utf-8 jo?

   jo: not really, it worked and detected an error :-)

DTDs

   sean: we do want to remove dependencies on external DTDs

   <dom> +100 to using a DTD catalog (W3C servers spend so much of
   their resources on serving DTDs...)

   sean: don't want failure because of dependency
   ... will take an action to download copies of DTDs

   ruadhan: I have code to do this with the Xerces resolver

   sean: sounds as though you can inject this into the current code
   base?

   ruadhan: sure

   jo: we should decide which DTDs we need to collect

   sean: let's have all the XHTML and the HTML 4 DTD

   <dom> the OMA XHTML MP dtds?

   <jo> if you can find them :-)

   <dom> xhtml mp 1.0 is available; I don't think the 1.1 and 1.2 are
   available at their published URIs, but they are available somewhere
   else I think

   sean: well we will have to have our own copy of that then

aob

   sean: not done too much this week except do nit-picking on Jo's
   [lousy] Java
   ... preparing for an intern to arrive
   ... anyone else got a status update?

   jo: I'll carry on with doing the Java for moki
   ... and finalizing that format

   Abel: we will start to implement stuff - we have got our account
   working so we can prepare for the F2F

   sean: we should all come to F2F with loads of working code already
   submitted
   ... i am pleased with progress so far
   ... no more comments then we can end the call now
   ... and convene again next week
   ... I still have an action on error code line number

   Adjourned

   <dom> [regrets for next week, I'll be traveling]
Received on Tuesday, 29 May 2007 14:45:41 GMT

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