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Re: MATF Minutes 25 January 2018

From: Abma, J.D. (Jake) <Jake.Abma@ing.nl>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 20:30:22 +0000
To: "Patrick H. Lauke" <plauke@paciellogroup.com>, "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <1516912221846.59219@ing.nl>

I feel you Patrick... :-) and you're right, it's an example of one of many SC where I have the feeling we weren't fully done but times up as I understand... also the reason for the AA not making it. Wondering what we can still do about those open issues still present in current the version...

Wasn't around for 2.0 but feels like the flow should be: normative text => understanding => techniques => re-work on normative text if needed => go to CR. This will proof the pudding and improve quality and certainty.

From: Patrick H. Lauke <plauke@paciellogroup.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 6:45 PM
To: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
Subject: Re: MATF Minutes 25 January 2018

On 25/01/2018 17:13, Kim Patch wrote:
> <Kathy>
> <http://codepen.io/patrickhlauke/pen/aBNREe>http://codepen.io/patrickhlauke/pen/aBNREe
> Kathy: this example might've been 48, but it's close
> ... it doesn't go around the whole area, just the link itself
> This example to fly because the low-vision task force didn't like it

I seem to remember discussions about people not understanding that the
green used there was for illustrative purposes only (to show to
developers where the actual hit target was), and not "this is how a
website would present it to its users". Do we have a reference to their
not liking it?

Also, as noted many times: the understanding will have the unenviable
task of somehow addressing this particularly confusing (some may say
nonsensical) part of the normative language:

"User Agent Control
The size of the target is determined by the user agent and is not
modified by the author."

It is still my contention that a strict reading of this means that it
would practically never be applicable as an exception, as the size given
by the user agent to a target depends on a huge number of factors
(including things like the font size of the target, the size/dimensions
of the element's parent/ancestor elements, etc). Again, strictly reading
this, I could argue that as soon as an author does anything
styling-wise, like even just changing the overall document's font size a
tiny shade from its default, the author has in essence "modified the
size of the target".

body { font-size: 0.99em; } or even body ( font-size: 1.01em; } or
whatever will influence all font sizes throughout the document,
including the font size of links/buttons/etc - resulting in a change in
the target size due to author modification.

Limiting this in understanding to something like "CSS applied directly
to the element in question, and only limited to changes in dimensions,
padding, margin, font-size" may work to an extent, but then an author
can simply avoid setting those on the actual element, and instead put a
<span> wrapper or whatever around it...nominally being able to claim
that they adhered to the above limiting clause...but in effect still
modifying exactly what this seemed to intend not to allow modification of.

I did comment about this exception on many occasions on list and on
github, but sadly it was never even aknowledged. Now it'll fall to the
understanding document to somehow square this circle, sadly.

Patrick H. Lauke
Senior Accessibility Engineer
The Paciello Group
A VFO™ Company http://www.vfo-group.com/
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Received on Thursday, 25 January 2018 20:30:50 UTC

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