Re: What counts as 'gesture'? Was: Re: Reworking Moble TF Doc to turn into WACG Extension

Hi Detlev

I've added your comments to the discussion paper under 2.5.4
http://davidmacd.com/blog/mobile-tf-proposal-2.html

I agree with your main point. Except my proposal is for not requiring that
ALL functionality be available via touch, but rather, any touch actions
that can be performed without AT can also be performed WITH AT on, and that
is where we can add the caveat about including buttons....


Cheers,

David MacDonald



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On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 3:50 AM, Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
wrote:

> Maybe it's better to separate the discussion of terminology from the
> discussion of reworking the mobile TF Doc.
>
> I personally don't get why someone would choose to call swiping or
> pinching a gesture, but refuse to apply this term to tapping. What about
> double and triple taps? Taps with two fingers? Long presses? Split taps?
>
> To me, it makes sense to call *all* finger actions applied to a touch
> screen a gesture. I simply don't get why tapping would not count. Where do
> you draw the line, and why?
>
> A related issue is the distinction between touch gestures and button
> presses. With virtual (non-tactile, but fixed position capacitive) buttons,
> you already get into a grey area. The drafted Guideline 2.5 "Touch
> Accessible: All functionality available via touch" probably needs to be
> expanded to include account for devices with physical (both tactile or
> capacitive) device buttons. Which would mean something like "On devices
> that support touch input, all functions are available vie touch or button
> presses also after AT is turned on (i.e. without the use of external
> keyboards)".   Not well put, but you get the idea.
>
> Detlev
>
> On 1 Sep 2015, at 20:24, Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 31/08/2015 22:02, David MacDonald wrote:
> >> *Patrick: *As said, when touch AT is running, all gestures are
> >> intercepted by the AT at the moment (unless you mean taps?). And only
> >> iOS, to my knowledge, has a passthrough gesture (which is not
> >> announced/exposed to users, so a user would have to guess that if they
> >> tried it, something would then happen).
> >>
> >> *David:* All gestures are intercepted. But all standard gestures are
> >> replaced, unless the author does something dumb to break that. I think
> >> we need to, at a minimum ensure that standard replacement gestures are
> >> not messed uo.
> >
> > I think it's critical to define what you mean by "standard gesture"
> then. As noted, later in the document I infer that a "tap" also falls under
> the definition of "gesture", but this is counter-intuitive to me and many
> devs.
> >
> >>
> >> For instance: I recently tested a high profile app for a major sports
> >> event. It had a continuous load feature like twitter that kept
> >> populating as you scroll down with one finger. Turn on the VoiceOver and
> >> try the 3 finger equivalent of a swipe and nothing happens to populate
> >> the page. The Blind user has hit a brick wall. I think we have to ensure
> >> this type of thing doesn't happen on WCAG conforming things.
> >
> > So scrolling is also a gesture? Again, I would not talk about it in
> those terms. A gesture to me is a swipe, pinch, rotation. Taps, scrolling,
> etc should be clearly identified as such, IMHO.--
> > Patrick H. Lauke
> >
> > www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> > http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>
> --
> Detlev Fischer
> testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese
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