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minutes of 2010-09-22 teleconference

From: RaphaŽl Troncy <raphael.troncy@eurecom.fr>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:05:42 +0200
Message-ID: <4C99D4F6.2030600@eurecom.fr>
To: Media Fragment <public-media-fragment@w3.org>
Dear all,

The minutes of today's telecon are available for review at
http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html (and in text format
below). We haven't been able to make progress for months because we 
cannot have everybody on the phone when we need.

We need to resolve ASAP the question of extensibility for Media 
Fragments. Philip will start a new thread on the mailing list. Please, 
all, react asap on this thread and express your view. We will take a 
resolution next week so please, try to make it.
Cheers.

   RaphaŽl

------------
    [1]W3C
       [1] http://www.w3.org/
              Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
22 Sep 2010
    [2]Agenda
       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Sep/0051.html
    See also: [3]IRC log
       [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-irc
Attendees
    Present
           Raphael, Yves, Erik_(irc), Philip
    Regrets
           Davy, Jack, Silvia
    Chair
           Raphael
    Scribe
           raphael

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]1. Admin
          2. [6]2. TPAC
          3. [7]3. MEDIA FRAGMENT EXTENSION:
          4. [8]5. AOB?
      * [9]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <trackbot> Date: 22 September 2010

1. Admin

    Accept the minutes from 15/09

    [10]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/15-mediafrag-minutes.html

      [10] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/15-mediafrag-minutes.html

    +1 ?

    <foolip> +1

    <erik> +1

    minutes accepted

2. TPAC

    TPAC week from Nov 1st till Nov 5th in Lyon France

    Yves, most likely only on Tuesday

    Davy will attend the whole week

    Raphael will attend from Mon till Thu or Fri

    There are 40$ fees per day, and the fees increase after Oct 22nd

    scribe: so please register before

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to book zakim for the 2 days meeting of the
    group on Mon 1st and Tue 2nd Nov [recorded in
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Book zakim for the 2 days meeting of
    the group on Mon 1st and Tue 2nd Nov [on Yves Lafon - due
    2010-09-29].

    ACTION-183?

    <trackbot> ACTION-183 -- RaphaŽl Troncy to send reminders to all
    relevant groups -- due 2010-09-15 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/183

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/183

    I have not yet done this for IETF, TAG

3. MEDIA FRAGMENT EXTENSION:

    Erik: no more news from Michael/Conrad should we be concerned?

    Raphael: I don't think so ... there are no critical actions from
    them we depend on
    ... if they can provide feedback, it's good
    ... we must progress without waiting

    Philippe's proposal:
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Au
    g/0005.html

      [13] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Aug/0005.html

    Philippe: this is just one part of the problem
    ... we could include this piece of ABNF in the doc

    ACTIOn-173?

    <trackbot> ACTION-173 -- Yves Lafon to produce the code that will
    check the grammar of both the URI syntax and the Headers syntax --
    due 2010-06-22 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/173

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/173

    ISSUE-19?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-19 -- Parsing must be defined normatively in the MF
    spec itself -- open

    <trackbot>
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/19

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/19

    Yves: action is still pending
    ... what I would like to have is what goes in the javascript stack
    from the browsers when they meet a %encoded URL
    ... %encoded and html-encoded URL (with ampersand)

    Erik: is this browser independent?

    <foolip> html entities: &amp;

    <foolip> percent encoding: %64

    Philippe: this never reaches javascript, this is handled by the HTML
    parser
    ... for percent encoding, yes, the js sees the un-decode string

    Yves: could you send to the mailing list the tests you have made so
    we can test on another browser than Opera

    Philippe: sure

    <scribe> ACTION: philippe to send his list of test cases to the
    mailing list for understanding how browsers handle %-encodded and
    html-encoded URL [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - philippe

    <foolip> Philip

    <scribe> ACTION: philip to send his list of test cases to the
    mailing list for understanding how browsers handle %-encodded and
    html-encoded URL [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Send his list of test cases to the
    mailing list for understanding how browsers handle %-encodded and
    html-encoded URL [on Philip Jšgenstedt - due 2010-09-29].

    Erik: what's happened if browsers manage this inconsistently?

    Raphael: the related problem deals with extensibility
    ... of the URI syntax

    Philip: the whole thing is to have a break into name/value pairs
    ... and then be relaxed if you don't understand all name/value pairs
    ... I think we should have a syntax, that mandates what we should
    have as name/value
    ... parsers fail for typos
    ... but implementations should be more relaxed

    Yves: what bothers me that the ABNF tells both what the syntax is
    and how to parse it
    ... the big issue is something that is not a media fragment can be
    recognized as a Media Fragment

    <foolip> "parsers fail for typos" isn't correct

    <foolip> a validator would, but not a parser in a browser

    Yves: we could put an algorithm for the browser
    ... we need to decide first what to do with extensibility
    ... then I don't see problem of having the algo closed to the ABNF
    definition
    ... so Annex D will move up towards the formal grammar

    Erik: I will not make the parsing instructions normative, they are
    useful guidelines only

    Philip: if we need to valid the whole URI before, then parsers will
    be broken with version 2

    Yves: yes, but if the new thing means already something you're
    already into trouble

    <silvia> ping?

    Yves: I agree

    s/agrre/agree with Philip

    Raphael: could we just write a normative paragraph that states how
    the parser should behave ?

    Erik: a lot of test cases would need to be redefined

    Yves: I want to have everybody on the phone to agree what we want to
    do with extensibility

    <Yves> I would note that we can try to get agreement on the ML in
    the meantime

    <scribe> ACTION: Philip to start a new thread about extensibility of
    the Media Fragments in order to get consensus by next week [recorded
    in [18]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Start a new thread about
    extensibility of the Media Fragments in order to get consensus by
    next week [on Philip Jšgenstedt - due 2010-09-29].

    Tpic: 4. PUBLIC COMMENT

    ACTON-184?

    ACTION-184?

    <trackbot> ACTION-184 -- Yves Lafon to email Chris the reply on when
    to send the range header -- due 2010-09-15 -- OPEN

    <trackbot>
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/184

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/184

    Yves: pending?

5. AOB?

    <erik> have a nice day

    Silvia: will you attend TPAC in Lyon ?

    <silvia> raphael: no and I think I have un-registered

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: philip to send his list of test cases to the mailing
    list for understanding how browsers handle %-encodded and
    html-encoded URL [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Philip to start a new thread about extensibility of
    the Media Fragments in order to get consensus by next week [recorded
    in [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to book zakim for the 2 days meeting of the group
    on Mon 1st and Tue 2nd Nov [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


-- 
RaphaŽl Troncy
EURECOM, Multimedia Communications Department
2229, route des CrÍtes, 06560 Sophia Antipolis, France.
e-mail: raphael.troncy@eurecom.fr & raphael.troncy@gmail.com
Tel: +33 (0)4 - 9300 8242
Fax: +33 (0)4 - 9000 8200
Web: http://www.eurecom.fr/~troncy/
Received on Wednesday, 22 September 2010 10:10:00 GMT

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