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Re: ISSUE-2: What is the mime type of a media fragment? What is its relation with its parent resource?

From: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:16:06 +0000
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, Yves Raimond <yves.raimond@gmail.com>
CC: David Singer <singer@apple.com>, Media Fragment <public-media-fragment@w3.org>, RaphaŽl Troncy <Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl>
Message-ID: <C5A54636.14F8%michael.hausenblas@deri.org>


FRBR == Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records

see http://www.loc.gov/cds/downloads/FRBR.PDF

Cheers,
      Michael

-- 
Dr. Michael Hausenblas
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
National University of Ireland, Lower Dangan,
Galway, Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://sw-app.org/about.html


> From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:50:47 +1100
> To: Yves Raimond <yves.raimond@gmail.com>
> Cc: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>, David Singer
> <singer@apple.com>, Media Fragment <public-media-fragment@w3.org>, RaphaŽl
> Troncy <Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl>
> Subject: Re: ISSUE-2: What is the mime type of a media fragment? What is its
> relation with its parent resource?
> 
> Could sombeody explain what FRBR is?
> Sorry if it's obvious to everybody else.
> Thanks,
> Silvia.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:19 AM, Yves Raimond <yves.raimond@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello!
>> 
>>> Good point re FRBR. I'd also target FRBR manifestations but I fear we will
>>> need end up with FRBR items.
>> 
>> The more I think about it, the more I'd think it would make sense to
>> see media fragments as FRBR manifestations. After all, other fragment
>> URIs (RDF and HTML) already work like that. They identify an object
>> within the target document, and not a part of the target document!
>> 
>> Best,
>> y
>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>>      Michael
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dr. Michael Hausenblas
>>> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
>>> National University of Ireland, Lower Dangan,
>>> Galway, Ireland, Europe
>>> Tel. +353 91 495730
>>> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: Yves Raimond <yves.raimond@gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:10:54 +0000
>>>> To: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
>>>> Cc: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>, Media Fragment
>>>> <public-media-fragment@w3.org>, RaphaŽl Troncy <Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl>
>>>> Subject: Re: ISSUE-2: What is the mime type of a media fragment? What is
>>>> its
>>>> relation with its parent resource?
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:48 PM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> At 14:36  +0000 27/01/09, Michael Hausenblas wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  a) the MIME type of the requested fragment is the
>>>>>>>  same as that of the original resource;  yes, that
>>>>>>>  might result in one-frame movies, and so on;
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sounds good. Didn't think about this one yet. But how do we technically
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> this? I fear I don't understand. Could you be more precisely on this
>>>>>> option,
>>>>>> please?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, I am trying hard to think of a case *in multimedia* where the
>>>>> statement
>>>>> "the type of a piece of X *cannot* be the same as the type of X"
>>>>> would be true.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The obvious problem area is if you select a time-point in a video track of
>>>>> a
>>>>> movie, then a fragment cast as a movie would have zero duration -- it's
>>>>> more
>>>>> sensibly a picture.  Unfortunately, zero duration frames are explicitly
>>>>> forbidden in MP4, 3GP etc. (since they can make the visual display at a
>>>>> given time ambiguous).
>>>>> 
>>>>> But this gets semantically tricky if there is sound;  what is the correct
>>>>> representation of a point in time of a sound track?  It's not right to
>>>>> drop
>>>>> it from the fragment (oof, we'd need media-type rules for what types get
>>>>> dropped and what don't).
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is steering me towards wondering if a piece of X, in time,
>>>>> necessarily
>>>>> has some extension in time, i.e. a time-point is not a fragment (can you
>>>>> see
>>>>> a zero-width character if you meet one in the street?).
>>>> 
>>>> I think that raises lots of really interesting questions, and
>>>> highlight the need for a debate about what a media fragment actually
>>>> is. Is it a bunch of byte (in that case, it makes sense to associate a
>>>> mime-type with it), or is it an identifier for a piece of the content?
>>>> In other words, does it identify a FRBR item, or a FRBR manifestation?
>>>> I would personally go for the latter, which would allow us to use
>>>> media fragments for identifying a particular signal sample, a frame in
>>>> a video, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> y
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Yves Raimond
>>>> BBC Audio & Music interactive
>>>> http://moustaki.org/
>>> 
>> 
>> 
Received on Tuesday, 27 January 2009 23:16:48 GMT

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