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Re: follow up on the discussion in HTML5 about metadata access

From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 21:20:29 +1000
Message-ID: <BANLkTimXXs0W0ezzu2xm5QDxsCU3tApfcw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Markku Hakkinen <mhakkinen@acm.org>
Cc: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>, "tmichel@w3.org" <tmichel@w3.org>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>, "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 9:01 PM, Markku Hakkinen <mhakkinen@acm.org> wrote:
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Silvia Pfeiffer
> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As you correctly state: a specialised HW or SW eBook reader is
>> required. A vanilla browser cannot display the eBook and requires a
>> plugin.
>
> I did not use the term "required".  I gave one example of eBook
> readers which embed HTML rendering engines.   There is another
> approach, which I neglected to mention.  Using DAISY publications as a
> use case, I have just consulted with a developer of a DAISY book
> reader, running as a Javascripted application within a plain vanilla
> browser. No plugin is required, given the capabilities inherent in
> HTML and Javascript.  When asked about a metadata API, the answer was
> that it would be very useful to them, and it would be used, if
> available.

Can you explain what it would be used for? Just saying generally that
it would be used is not enough of an argument.


>> Once you are at the plugin level, you can provide all sorts of
>> additional functionality such as extracting metadata.
>>
>
> But plugins do not appear to be the trend among the talking book
> organizations creating book players for the Web.

>From what I can tell (http://www.jedisaber.com/ebooks/Readers.asp), HW
players and stand-alone SW are still dominant ways of having ePub
readers. These are not relevant to the Web.

Those sites the publish ePub book online deliver them as HTML, not in
ePub format and are thus not expecting the browser to support ePub.
They are Web applications that can extract the metadata on media files
on the server and then deliver them to the user.

Where a Website is actually delivering ePub to the user, a Web browser
plugin is provided.


>> This is not a use case to introduce a metadata API into HTML.
>
> I disagree, and will ask the developers to submit specific requirements.

That would be appreciated.

Silvia.


> Mark
>
>>
>> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Markku Hakkinen <mhakkinen@acm.org> wrote:
>>> The ePub 3.0 document content model is HTML5.  HTML5 UA's will be used
>>> to render ePub publications, embedded in hardware or software eBook
>>> readers.  Note that ePub is a container (like ZIP) that contains HTML5
>>> content and associated resources, which may include any audio and
>>> video referenced in the content.  In the eBook world, content is
>>> downloaded and read on a local device.
>>>
>>> mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Silvia Pfeiffer
>>> <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> EPUB is not HTML, so it does not get interpreted by a HTML UA and
>>>> therefore not exposed through the HTML IDL. Even if there is HTML
>>>> somewhere in EPUB, you are not delivering a HTML file to the Web
>>>> browser but an EPUB file. If you want to interpret EPUB markup in a
>>>> Web browser you need a plugin.
>>>>
>>>> Silvia.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>>> HTML is a markup language that can be (and is!) used in MANY DIFFERENT areas.  To limit it (and it's design/development) to the "Web" is short-sighted and will only lead to interoperability problems in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>> Leonard
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Henri Sivonen [mailto:hsivonen@iki.fi]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 12:37 AM
>>>>> To: Leonard Rosenthol
>>>>> Cc: Silvia Pfeiffer; tmichel@w3.org; public-html@w3.org; public-media-annotation@w3.org
>>>>> Subject: RE: follow up on the discussion in HTML5 about metadata access
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2011-05-04 at 16:52 -0700, Leonard Rosenthol wrote:
>>>>>> > Right now, all use cases discussed on the HTML WG list were solvable
>>>>>> > with server-side APIs.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> That is NOT true, Silvia!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I raised a number of use cases for non-browser-based UAs - for example
>>>>>> EPUB viewers - where server-side was NOT an option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would an .epub book need to be able to introspect its own metadata
>>>>> using a script?
>>>>>
>>>>> As for viewers, if the viewer wants to do stuff with metadata, it can
>>>>> implement whatever interfaces it wants for its own private use. They
>>>>> don't have to be standardized or exposed to scripts provided by the book
>>>>> itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> (I tend to get skeptical when a Web API is motivated by non-Web uses.
>>>>> The W3C has been down that road before. Has it ever been a good road?)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Henri Sivonen
>>>>> hsivonen@iki.fi
>>>>> http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Friday, 6 May 2011 11:32:13 GMT

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