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Re: RE : Minutes of the MAWG telecon july 18th 2011 and ACTION for editors.

From: Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@dfki.de>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:13:32 +0200
Message-ID: <CAL58czr8aoNVHj83QzUe557uycbzmfiL77oT2jd1dkLkAfgdng@mail.gmail.com>
To: Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>
Cc: "Evain, Jean-Pierre" <evain@ebu.ch>, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Thank you for your mail, Thierry. If that's OK with you and the group please
extend the deadline until the end of August. And I hope that Siliva can
start with what's here as a documentation and will get help from the group
later.

Best,

Felix

2011/7/26 Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>

> Felix,
>
> I agree that the deadline Aug 7th is not the greatest, regarding the
> summer holiday. (but remember that these files were requested more than 5
> months ago). Now why Aug 7th ? Just to match the specification SoTD:
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-mediaont-10-20110707/
>
> "This specification will remain a Candidate Recommendation until at least
> 01 August 2011 and until the API for Media Resource 1.0 specification
> enters Candidate Recommendation."
>
> And the API for Media Resource 1.0 specification LC review ends  07 August
> 2011.
> see:
>    http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20110712
>
> The idea was to collect all files at that date. Then we will have to check
> again all the RDF files: We must make sure that not only the RDF files are
> valid (against the RDF validator) but also they validate against the Media
> Ontology (for this we use Protégé). If anyone has a better idea idea, the
> Group will be happy to do otherwise. Thanks to Werner and Martin to
> provide this "how to use" guide to validate the RDF files with Protégé.
>
> We can not move to PR with RDF files in a testsuite that do not validate
> the Media Ontology scheme.
>
> I am fine with extending the deadline, but I would not want to delay
> eternally this spec. At some point if there are RDF files that do fulfill
> the guidelines, we will have to remove the corresponding mapping Format
> from the Ontology spec (according to the CR exit criteria).
>
> I personnally have no real RDF expertise. But I think the guidelines are
> very helpfull (thank for all the people who have given input here). And it
> has helped me a lot to do my format. Also looking at other correct file is
> a lot of help.
>
> There are a  few lines mandatory like the following to add to the file to
> allow validation. Also providing in parallel the HTML column of the
> "RDF-tested" column is affordable to everyone.
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!-- created by hand by Thierry MICHEL (W3C) for Dublin Core example file
> : version 4 -->
> <rdf:RDF xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ns/ma-ont#"
> xmlns:ma="http://www.w3.org/ns/ma-ont#"
> xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
> xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
> xmlns:owl="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#"
> xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#"
> xmlns:more="........." >
> <owl:Ontology>
>    <owl:imports rdf:resource="http://www.w3.org/ns/ma-ont"/>
> </owl:Ontology>
>
>
> Then one has to make sure the file validates against the Ontology using
> Protégé.
>
> This is the way to start with.
>
> Sylvia should start with this and if the file don't validate, I guess
> there will be people from the WG helping her to provide good RDF files.
>
> Best,
>
> Thierry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I assume that the difference between you and Silvia is that you have much
> > more experience in work with RDF. So even if you and Silvia are asked the
> > same thing, in practice it means much more work for her.
> >
> > Of course you are right about what Thierry is doing. But there are very
> > experienced RDF experts in this group. So maybe some of them wants to
> take
> > the effort and help Silvia?
> >
> > I understand that this approach of helping out the actual owner of a
> > format
> > does not scale. But in this specific case I see the value of building a
> > bridge between (the godmother of) HTML5 (video) and RDF.
> >
> > Another issue here is of course the deadline. Setting a deadline as 7
> > August, that is in the middle of the summer break, creates problems. So
> > maybe extending this to the end of August might help here too, like it
> > would
> > help me for XMP and and Flash. As said in a different thread, 7 August
> > will
> > not work for me anyway.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Felix
> >
> >
> > 2011/7/26 Evain, Jean-Pierre <evain@ebu.ch>
> >
> >> I was also obliged to add fields to my real data operational files to
> >> illustrate how the different formats I was responsible for would map to
> >> ma-ont. I also spent hours on this and I wasn't so happy about it but I
> >> complied.
> >>
> >> Of course I would never have expected from Thierry to have to get into
> >> all
> >> these details for each format and correct my mistakes.
> >>
> >> In contrary I'd to restrospectively warmly thank Thierry for providing
> >> me
> >> with the information I needed to complete this work, in addition to
> >> timely
> >> uploading the files (xml, rdf and html).
> >>
> >> I also would like to congratulate the group who made the review of each
> >> format and mapping during the last F2F.
> >>
> >> Jean-Pierre
> >> ________________________________________
> >> De : public-media-annotation-request@w3.org [
> >> public-media-annotation-request@w3.org] de la part de Thierry Michel [
> >> tmichel@w3.org]
> >> Date d'envoi : lundi, 25. juillet 2011 17:40
> >> À : Silvia Pfeiffer
> >> Cc : tmichel@w3.org; public-media-annotation@w3.org
> >> Objet : Re: Minutes of the MAWG telecon july 18th 2011 and ACTION for
> >> editors.
> >>
> >> > Dear Thierry,
> >> >
> >> > I am not an editor on this spec, just a willing contributor. I have
> >> > spent many hours preparing files for this WG such that there are files
> >> > for formats that this WG cares about or should care about. The last
> >> > time that I sent files through I was told that the files are fine. Now
> >> > I am told there is more work that I need to do with a link to a
> >> > randomly long list of things that I should take the files through. I
> >> > would prefer to be told exactly what is wrong with my files. Also, I
> >> > believe I have provided sufficient detail the last time around that
> >> > you as a W3C employee can just fix up whatever wrong RDF markup I
> >> > provided if it doesn't validate.
> >> >
> >> > As for any missing fields: I have in the past explained how in theory
> >> > Ogg and WebM files can contain all these fields, but that existing
> >> > software does not encode all of these fields at this point in time. I
> >> > have added what was possible to the binary files at this point. I can
> >> > make up RDF files that do not relate to the binary files, but that
> >> > will be very unhelpful. As the files are just an example for what is
> >> > possible at this point in time, I do not see a need to write new
> >> > software that will create files with all the fields that you are
> >> > asking for. I believe you will actually end up with the same situation
> >> > for all of the binary formats including FLV and MP4. I have explained
> >> > this in that past - indeed in many discussions and emails that we had
> >> > on this topic - but I just don't seem to be able to make this point
> >> > understood.
> >> >
> >>
> >> It is 100% understood, and we have taken resolution about it, but
> >> because
> >> you did not attend the MAWG F2F nor the telcons you may not be aware of
> >> the WG decision.
> >>
> >> Please read the CR exit critéria (these have been requested by the W3C
> >> Director, no me !).
> >>
> >> "
> >> Each format listed in the testsuite for Ontology for Media Resources 1.0
> >> has at least one example file covering a subset or all of the properties
> >> of the core vocabulary of the Media Ontology available for each format
> >> (e.g some formats may not have a mapping to all the properties core set;
> >> for example the "MP4" format does not have a property mapping to the
> >> "identifier" property of the core vocabulary of the Media Ontology). For
> >> formats providing an exemple using only a subset of the properties of
> >> the
> >> core vocabulary, the missing properties will be highlighted in the
> >> corresponding mapping tables
> >> "
> >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-mediaont-10-20110707/
> >>
> >> > Once your "help" is more concrete than sending me a hyperlink to an
> >> > email with 4 further hyperlinks, two semi-understandable meeting
> >> > minutes, a guideline for editing with a request to install 4 pieces of
> >> > software (which in my case for binary files isn't even sufficient),
> >> > and a random call to "just fix your files", feel free to get back to
> >> > me with concrete questions for what you still need for these files.
> >>
> >> I have pointed to an older email that you seemed to be unaware of.
> >> Do I need to copy the minutes in my email. Isn't an hyperlink good
> >> enough?
> >>
> >> We (the MAWG) have reviewed the RDF files during the F2F. We have
> >> concluded that some RDF files are not good, some are missing info, etc.
> >> Therefore we have written guidelines in order to help the editors. Files
> >> must fulfill the guidelines.
> >> If there are pieces that you don't understand in these guidelines, the
> >> MAWG will be happy to clarifying what is unclear. Maybe you could join a
> >> telecon if you have any issues.
> >> I am only coordinating the work here. If you may also ask more details
> >> to
> >> our co chairs.d
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Thierry
> >>
> >>
> >> > Best Regards,
> >> > Silvia Pfeiffer.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> Sylvia,
> >> >>
> >> >> We had many discussions and emails on this topic.
> >> >>
> >> >> Please refer to the F2F minutes for review of your formats OGG and
> >> WebM
> >> >> and
> >> >> also to the guidelines to edit conformant RDF files.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2011Jul/0023.html
> >> >>
> >> >> Best,
> >> >>
> >> >> Thierry.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Le 22/07/2011 12:35, Silvia Pfeiffer a écrit :
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Dear Thierry,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> What is missing now in the files? Are you able to fix it without my
> >> >>> help?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks,
> >> >>> Silvia.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Thierry MICHEL<tmichel@w3.org>
> >>  wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Colleagues,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> During this telecon there was very poor attendance.
> >> >>>> Only Werner, Mari-Carmen and I were present.
> >> >>>> Unfortunately, we were missing a quorum and only a couple of
> >> regrets
> >> >>>> sent.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> We have discussed the RDF files in the Testsuite and the guidelines
> >> to
> >> >>>> provide conformant RDF files.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> So far we have 7 formats conformant (RDF files marked in green)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> We are missing the following compliant RDF files and updated HTML
> >> >>>> mapping
> >> >>>> table:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Joakim:
> >> >>>> - Cablelabs
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Wonsuk
> >> >>>> -MRSS
> >> >>>> -TXF
> >> >>>> -You tube
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Sylvia
> >> >>>> -OGG
> >> >>>> -WebM
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Courtney/Mari Carment
> >> >>>> - 3GPP
> >> >>>> - Quicktime
> >> >>>> -
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Felix
> >> >>>> - Flash
> >> >>>> - XMP
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Tobias
> >> >>>> - EXIF
> >> >>>> - LOM
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Pierre Antoine
> >> >>>> -ID3
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Chris:
> >> >>>> - Dig35
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Next week the telecon (July 25th) will be canceled.
> >> >>>> ACTION: editors please work on these files. We are about to be done
> >> >>>> now
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> move to REC, once we have fulfilled these files.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Deadline is Aug 4th.
> >> >>>> Best,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Thierry
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thierry Michel
> >> W3C
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Thierry Michel
> W3C
>



-- 
Prof. Dr. Felix Sasaki
Senior Researcher / Professor at University of Applied Sciences Potsdam
DFKI GmbH, Alt-Moabit 91c, 10559 Berlin, Germany http://www.dfki.de
phone: +49-30-23895-1807 (fax: -1810)
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Received on Tuesday, 26 July 2011 08:14:01 GMT

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