Re: comments on OMR 1.0 mapping to IPTC Schemas

Hello Michael, all,

the update of XMP is done, see
http://fabday.fh-potsdam.de/~sasaki/mawg/xmp.html . This should be enough to
reach the deadline declared at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Apr/0045.html.
I am sure that there is still enough food for discussion, though.

I am also responsible for the MIX table
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/MIX.html ,
but I don't have time to look into this by April 20th. So this is a
candidate for exclusion from the spec.

Felix

2010/4/16 Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>

> Hi Michael,
>
>
> 2010/4/16 Michael Steidl (IPTC) <mdirector@iptc.org>
>
>>  Hi Felix, see more below ...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* felix.sasaki@googlemail.com [mailto:felix.sasaki@googlemail.com]
>> *On Behalf Of *Felix Sasaki
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 16, 2010 2:00 PM
>>
>> *To:* Michael Steidl (IPTC)
>> *Cc:* public-media-annotation@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: comments on OMR 1.0 mapping to IPTC Schemas
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> 2010/4/16 Michael Steidl (IPTC) <mdirector@iptc.org>
>>
>> Hi Felix
>>
>> The issue I raised is about “what are you mapping”. To my understanding
>> from reading the specs it is a mapping between metadata properties  - which
>> are grouped by what? By their namespace? Or by an “existing format”, and
>> what is a format – a named specification?
>>
>> The IPTC as a standardisation organisation would prefer that properties
>> are considered as intellectual property of their makers. Thus a mapping is
>> established between the ma: properties and the Dublin Core properties and
>> not XMP which is only using Dublin Core properties but not having specified
>> them. Further the mapping between ma:title and dc:title should be applicable
>> regardless of the format which is used to annotate the Dublin Core Title
>> property.
>>
>> To add: I understand what you are aiming at with the API below, but this
>> would work in exactly the same way if the mapping is named “to Dublic Core”
>> and not “to XMP”. So what I’m pointing at is more a naming and IP issue and
>> not a technical issue.
>>
>>
>> Understand. I tend to disagree that this is not a technical issue: if you
>> do not enlist the potential field names which may occur in a metadata file,
>> the API would need to check for everything before doing the mapping. So
>> having the information available "looking for ma:title in XMP files, only
>> search for dc:title" makes that easier.
>>
>> Besides, again on the technical level, XMP defines value types like
>> LangAlt for dc:description, which are not available in Dublin Core itself.
>> So having a place to gather these types is very for the API.
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, agreed, this is a feature beyond the Dublic Core specs.
>>
>>
>> Your IP concerns are very important, and I am thinking of how to implement
>> them while keeping such information . Would it help  if the table and
>> column 3 would be renamed "Schemas used in XMP", and to add a statement to
>> the specification like this:
>>
>> "XMP allows for using properties which are not from the XMP namespace,
>> like Dublin Core. The specification of mappings between these properties and
>> the Media Annotations Working Group vocabulary does not entail any
>> intellectual property relation between the maintainers of these properties,
>> e.g. the Dublin Core Metadata Initative, and XMP."
>>
>>  I think the Media Annotation group has to make a split regarding the API
>> specs into features regarding the “annotation technology” (e.g. XMP) and the
>> properties:
>>
>
> I agree to your three bullet points below, and I am currently reworking the
> XMP mapping, see http://fabday.fh-potsdam.de/~sasaki/mawg/xmp.html<http://fabday.fh-potsdam.de/%7Esasaki/mawg/xmp.html>. I am 1/3 through and have already included EXIF related metadata and
> photoshop as well. Getting to keywords, I will take IPTC into account as
> well. So I hope that this is the right way forward. If you have any specific
> comments, please let me know :) . Btw., I will also ask Frank Biederich from
> Adobe from feedback, probably later today when I have reached ma:numTracks.
>
>
>
>> -          Exif metadata may also be expressed by the XMP annotation –
>> won’t they benefit from the XMP features for Dublin Core?
>>
>> -          Adobe has defined some metadata in their own “photoshop”
>> namespace (actually referring back the IPTC IIM metadata –
>> www.iptc.org/IIM) like keyword. This would perfectly fit the ma:keyword
>> -  but is currently excluded from the XMP mapping.
>>
>> -          We, the IPTC, have defined a set of more refined Photo
>> Metadata in the IPTC Extension namespace – which also builds on XMP.
>>
>> As XMP is an important annotation technology for visual content I would
>> support that the API takes XMP features into account and provides e.g. a
>> parameter to get a description in specific language. But the mapping from
>> ma: properties to properties of other namespaces should not be strictly
>> linked to the technology.
>>
>> Having a look into mediaont-api: you define interfaces for accessing
>> properties, e.g.
>>
>> interface StringObject: MAObject, Language {
>>
>>                                    attribute DOMString value;
>>
>>                         };
>>
>> Perfect: you („only“) need a class for each annotation technology or
>> format: the XMP class, the NewsML-G2 class ;-) etc. Each class implements
>> the interface in a way which is specific to this annotation technology, then
>> the user only has to now this file includes metadata in a specific
>> annotation technology, then applying the right class would deliver what’s
>> expected.
>>
>
> That sounds like a very good idea to me.
>
> Best,
>
> Felix
>
>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Br
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* felix.sasaki@googlemail.com [mailto:felix.sasaki@googlemail.com]
>> *On Behalf Of *Felix Sasaki
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 16, 2010 12:05 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* Michael Steidl (IPTC)
>> *Cc:* public-media-annotation@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: comments on OMR 1.0 mapping to IPTC Schemas
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Michael,
>>
>>
>>
>> thank you for your very useful and detailed comments. I am not working on
>> this mapping, but on the XMP mapping table, so I have a comment related to
>> that below.
>>
>> 2010/4/15 Michael Steidl (IPTC) <mdirector@iptc.org>
>>
>> .....
>>
>> ------------
>>
>> In addition to this review of the IPTC mapping I would like to add one
>> more comments:
>>
>>
>>
>> * as the IPTC is very involved in XMP we would like to point out, that the
>> “Table 1: XMP” is misleading: the “XMP Attributes” like dc:contributor etc
>> are definitely not part of the XMP specifications, as the namespace prefix
>> indicates they are part of the Dublin Core specification. XMP is a
>> completely metadata property agnostic framework based on RDF/XML – and Adobe
>> makes only use of some properties in their implementation for Adobe
>> products, like Photoshop etc. But it would be fully XMP compliant to have an
>> XMP packet without a single Dublin Core property but Descriptions,
>> Identifiers etc. from other namespaces.
>>
>>
>> Sure. However, keep in mind that the ontology is supposed to be used to
>> provide mapping relations for an API. Below is a sample method, adapted from
>>
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Apr/0058.html
>>
>>
>> maobject1 = setMAResource ("video.flv");
>> maobject1.getProperty("title");
>>
>> So you want to be able to get the title of a media resource - which is
>> AFAICT stored as dc:title in XMP.
>> Of course there might media files without dc:title, as you pointed out.
>> Because of that I would map ma:title to let's say:
>> - dc:title, exact mapping, dataype langalt (allows for language
>> alternatives)
>> - xmpDM:album, related mapping, album title in the XMP Dynamic Media
>> schema
>> - xmp:Nickname related mapping, text datatype, XMP Basic schema
>> - xmp:Label, related mapping, text XMP Basic schema
>>
>> Also the XMP mapping table needs a thorough revision, and I am currently
>> at it, with more updates later today.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Felix
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks for this work as we see that NewsML-G2 provides one of the
>> most complete mappings to OMR of all referenced metadata schemas, so it may
>> make sense to stay in touch.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> ==================================================
>>
>> Sent by:
>>
>> Michael Steidl
>>
>> Managing Director of the IPTC <mdirector@iptc.org>
>>
>> International Press Telecommunications Council - http://www.iptc.org/
>>
>> Business office address:
>>
>> 20 Garrick Street, London WC2E 9BT, United Kingdom
>>
>> Registered in England, company no 101096
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>