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minutes of 2009-03-10 teleconference

From: RaphaŽl Troncy <Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:06:14 +0100
Message-ID: <49B665C6.8030504@cwi.nl>
To: "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
All,

The minutes of today's telecon is available for review at: 
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html (and in text format 
below).
Cheers.

   RaphaŽl

---------
    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

             Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference

10 Mar 2009

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Jean_Pierre, Thierry, Pierre_Antoine, Chris, Raphael,
           Daniel_(irc), Veronique_(irc), wonsuk, (partial)

    Regrets
           Tobias, michele

    Chair
           Joakim

    Scribe
           Thierry, raphael

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Agenda review and approval of previous minutes telecon
             03 March 2009
          2. [6]Action Items
          3. [7]mapping of formats
          4. [8]toy implementation
          5. [9]AOB
      * [10]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <tmichel> Scribe:Thierry

    <tmichel> Minutes:
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html

      [11] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html

    <tmichel> hello raphael

    trackbot, start teleco

    <trackbot> Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot, start
    teleco'. Please refer to [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
    for help

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

    trackbot, start telecon

    <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2009

    <scribe> Agenda:
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009
    Mar/0023.html

      [13] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html

    <daniel> this call starts ?

    <tmichel> hope Joakim will join to chair this meeting

    <Chris_IBBT> hopefully Joakim did not forget the different starting
    time of the phone conference

    <daniel> oh, call information sent from Joakim has the same timezone
    (not applying one-hour earlier). I am now traveling, hence can't
    make a phone call.

    <tmichel> It maybe that some people have forgotten about the time
    slot change for this call

    <tmichel> Should we proceed ? Do we have a quorum ?

    chairs, tema contact: what's happened with this call?

    <daniel> presumably, we will start after one-hour with Joamik
    charing. sorry for inconvenience and thanks your patient...

    <tmichel> Joakim sent an agenda and was schedulled to Chair. I was
    scheduled to scribe ...

    The agenda said: Tuesday, 10 March 13:00-14:00 UTC

    <Chris_IBBT> we do it in french?

    veronique, the telecon was messy, restart again

    <daniel> so sorry...this is a chairs' mistake. if ok, we will be
    able to resume this call after 50 minutes. is that ok for all of you
    ?

    daniel, we cannot, since Zakim is not booked!

    <daniel> um...ok, Thierry can you be charing this call instead of
    Joakim ?

    <tmichel> do we want to cancel

Agenda review and approval of previous minutes telecon 03 March 2009

    minutes accepted, no objections

    <tmichel> Propose to accept:
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html as

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html

    <tmichel> minutes of the last meeting, thanks to Veronique for
    scribing.

    <scribe> Scribe: raphael

    <pchampin> I can scribe

    <scribe> scribenick: raphael

    Scribe for next week: Thierry volunteers

Action Items

    Felix: ACTION-43: continue

    All actions: 47, 54, 80, 82 continue

    Pierre Antoine: ACTION-83

    scribe: the action is not completed
    ... I thought that the review of the standards will be done in small
    group and thus the action would have been cancelled

    close ACTION-83

    <trackbot> ACTION-83 Review ID3 closed

    The remaining actions: 85, 86, 87 are still pending

mapping of formats

    Thierry: how will we going to publish this table in our new
    document?

    Raphael: is there any action to actually review this table?

    Thierry: no, we will make small group of 2-3 people for reviewing
    part of this table
    ... should we design groups and assign formats to these groups ?

    Veronique: I thought we will discuss that during the face to face
    meeting

    Raphael: +1 for Veronique's suggestion

    Thierry: yes, but we should as well have some material prior to the
    f2f

    <daniel> this small group will be made by toy implementation
    volunteers and chairs...so toss it (reviewing the mapping table) to
    chairs this time

    Jean Pierre: we need experts of these formats to actually do the
    mapping, I will not dare to say something on formats I don't know

    Thierry: should we ask people to attach their name on specific
    format?

    Jean Pierre: yes

    <pchampin> +1

    <Chris_IBBT> +1

    Thierry: and then use a first come first serve principle

    Jean Pierre: the maker of the mapping for each specific format
    should be in

    <veroniqueM> +1

    <scribe> ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats
    considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping,
    leading each sub-group [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Provide the list of all formats
    considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping,
    leading each sub-group [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17].

    <scribe> ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ALL

    Raphael: why do you want to publish this table before the f2f?

    Veronique: in order to get comments from a wider community

    Thierry: it will be difficult to publish this table in the TR space
    because of pubrules

    Raphael: my suggestion would be to produce a document that contains
    excerpts of the table and graphical representation of the mappings
    ... but requires a lot of work, not sure you can make it in 2 weeks

    Veronique: graphical representation might be unreadable

    Raphael: yes, thus split this table depending on group of properties

    Veronique: we want a validation of these mappings from the communiy
    depending on the usage of the properties

    Raphael: then you need a lot of text explaining the rational behind
    each mappings

    Pierre Antoine: the current table has XMP as a pivot format

    scribe: split the table in plenty of tables with always XMP as
    reference

    Raphael: problem with that is that you remove a lot of value of the
    global view of the table

    Thierry: but assuming we do not publish anything by the f2f, what
    can we expect afterwards

    Veronique: the transitivity of the mappings is also in question, we
    need to discuss it during the f2f

    <Chris_IBBT> +1 Veronique

    +1 veronique

    Thierry: what I hear here, is that we should wait for after the f2f
    to go publishing a document

    <veroniqueM> +1

    +1

    Raphael: and explain carefully the rationale of each mapping, the
    type of the mapping (equivalent, sub-property, related to,
    unspecified), the transitivity

    Thierry: do we have a quorum for taking a resolution

    Raphael: i think we are not enough, can make an informal poll

    Chris: we should listen to the arguments of Felix that wanted to
    publish the table asap

    Thierry: ok, this is not a formal resolution (no quorum), but I note
    that the people present on the call want to delay the publication of
    the table

    Toppic: survey of mapping formats

    <tmichel>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42786/Annot-format-survey/results

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42786/Annot-format-survey/results

    12 responders on 26 people!

    Thierry: commenting the results received so far, see also
    [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009
    Mar/0030.html

      [18] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0030.html

    Raphael: I would like to raise a serious concern! I see only 12
    responders on 26, among the non-responders, there are active
    participants ! I observe also that Dave Singer (from Apple) has
    raised concern on the poll itself and did not provide answers :-(

    Chris: i can ask other IBBT guys to answer as well

    Veronique: I have no real preferences

    Thierry: I'm a team contact, so I cannot answer

    Daniel: why did you do not answer?

    Others: seem to not be active participants

    <scribe> ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite
    people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order
    to get a quorum of responses [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-90 - Re-open the questionnaire and invite
    people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order
    to get a quorum of responses [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17].

    <scribe> ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-91 - Chase the non-responders [on Thierry
    Michel - due 2009-03-17].

    <daniel> sorry..! I missed the due in flight...

    <daniel> Thierry, do we make a decision to reopen for that once
    again ?

toy implementation

    Veronique: is there a schema of XMP available or should we construct
    it manually from the spec?
    ... should we consider the VRA mapping in the toy implementation
    given that VRA has low results in the pol

    Wonsuk: we can ask the schema to Adobe

    Raphael: I think it does *NOT* exist

    [21]http://support.adobe.com/devsup/devsup.nsf/docs/51668.htm

      [21] http://support.adobe.com/devsup/devsup.nsf/docs/51668.htm

    Raphael: we can of course ask confirmation from Adobe, a chair
    action?
    ... from the blog post above, it seems Adobe considers XMP as a
    framework, in which particular subsets are defined, DC, and other
    small schemas, but XMP is extensible too, thus no XMP schema exists
    ... this is how I interpret it

    <daniel> I was asking Adobe for some of XMP issues as well as
    Metadata WG, but no clear answer to me until now...

    <scribe> ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's
    contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have
    access too [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's
    contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have
    access too [on Joakim SŲderberg - due 2009-03-17].

AOB

    Thierry: next call will be an hour earlier again!!!

    Chairs: need to write that in the agenda

    <daniel> again, sorry

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact
    in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats considered
    in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading
    each sub-group [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite people
    to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get
    a quorum of responses [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]


-- 
RaphaŽl Troncy
CWI (Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science),
Science Park 123, 1098 XG Amsterdam, The Netherlands
e-mail: raphael.troncy@cwi.nl & raphael.troncy@gmail.com
Tel: +31 (0)20 - 592 4093
Fax: +31 (0)20 - 592 4312
Web: http://www.cwi.nl/~troncy/
Received on Tuesday, 10 March 2009 13:06:57 GMT

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