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[mediaann minutes] 2008-11-11 telephone conference minutes (DRAFT)

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:08:34 +0900
Message-ID: <491A2C92.4000100@w3.org>
To: public-media-annotation@w3.org

... are at http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html and below
as text.

Felix


[1]W3C

[1] http://www.w3.org/

- DRAFT -

media annotations WG

11 Nov 2008

[2]Agenda

[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html

See also: [3]IRC log

[3] http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-irc

Attendees

Present
dave, felix, joakim, pierre, ruben, werner, wonsuk, tobias,
ericCarlson

Regrets
Daniel, Raphael, Thierry, Erik, Davy

Chair
Felix

Scribe
werner

Contents

* [4]Topics
1. [5]Agenda review / approval of previous minutes
2. [6]Selection of scribe for next meeting.
3. [7]Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call
time
4. [8]Action items
5. [9]New use case "Digital imaging lifecycle"
6. [10]New use case "life log"
7. [11]XMP review
8. [12]XMP Basic schema
9. [13]XMP Rights Management schema
10. [14]XMP Media Management schema
11. [15]XMP Basic Job Ticket schema
12. [16]XMP Paged-text schema
13. [17]XMP Dynamic Media schema
14. [18]Draft for Use cases and requirements document
15. [19]API/Ontology draft proposal
* [20]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________

<fsasaki>
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008
Nov/0048.html

[21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html

Agenda review / approval of previous minutes

<fsasaki> [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-mediaann-minutes.html

[22] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-mediaann-minutes.html

<fsasaki> [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html

[23] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html

minutes approved

Selection of scribe for next meeting.

joakim

Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time

<fsasaki> see admin page
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/admin

<dsinger> by the way, Eric Carlson is also here on the same line and
IRC with me

introduction eric carlson (Apple)

Action items

<fsasaki> close ACTION-20

<trackbot> ACTION-20 Add a link from WG page to the "still alive"
MMSEM wiki pages and to make sure that everybody can edit the pages
closed

action-20 done

<frank> hello everybody, Veronique and I call in now (we share a
phone)

<fsasaki> close ACTION-21

<trackbot> ACTION-21 Create a liaison to Geolocation WG closed

<fsasaki> ACTION-22 Go back to Karen and check about " IPTV metadata
specification" - what is it, is it available for us? - pending

<fsasaki> close ACTION-23

<trackbot> ACTION-23 Explain XMLSPEC to wonsuk closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-24

<trackbot> ACTION-24 Get CVS accounts for veronique and wonsuk
closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-25

<trackbot> ACTION-25 Review XMP basic schema closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-26

<trackbot> ACTION-26 Review XMP Dublin Core schema closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-27

<trackbot> ACTION-27 Review XMP Rights Management schema closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-28

<trackbot> ACTION-28 Review XMP Media Management schema closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-29

<trackbot> ACTION-29 Tell Wonsuk to review XMP Basic Job Ticket
schema and Paged-Text schema closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-30

<trackbot> ACTION-30 Review XMP Dynamic Media schema closed

<fsasaki> close ACTION-31

<trackbot> ACTION-31 Contact tom baker about dc liaison closed

<fsasaki> action-32 Make a liaison with MPEG using information from
the XP homepage - pending

<fsasaki> action-33 Evaluate if contact to IPTV Japan is valuable -
pending

<fsasaki> action-34 Contact Open IPTV forum - pending

<fsasaki> close ACTION-35

<trackbot> ACTION-35 Check contacts to OMA closed

<fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to make a liaison with OMA [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Make a liaison with OMA [on Felix
Sasaki - due 2008-11-18].

New use case "Digital imaging lifecycle"

<fsasaki>
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008
Oct/0078.html

[25]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0078.html

<fsasaki>
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008
Nov/0000.html

[26]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0000.html

ruben: jpeg in process of defining metadata for digital image
lifecycle
... specific type of search/retrieval uc

felix: keep use case and discuss in future call

<fsasaki> or via mail

New use case "life log"

<fsasaki>
[27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008
Oct/0073.html

[27]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0073.html

<cgi-irc> maybe it can be an interesting use case for checking how
the interoperability across media can be achieved

<fsasaki> veronique = cgi-irc

<pchampin> +1 veronique

veronique: consider in second stage of ontology dvelopment

XMP review

<fsasaki> [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP

[28] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP

<fsasaki>
[29]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#Dublin_Core
_schema

[29] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#Dublin_Core_schema

thierry: dublin core: everything could be adopted

felix: some fields (eg data) quite general, might conflict with
fields from other standards

werner: +1, I think for most dc fields we need to specify how we use
them

ruben: granularity of fields (eg name, more structured eg in mpeg-7)

david: string is general, everything else might cause eg
internationalisation problems

<dsinger> it may be solved, but it can be a tarpit

goal is to keep simple

veronique: pointing to vocbulary (eg artist names)

<pchampin> wouldn't that be interesting, nevertheless, to allow the
URI of another resource (possibly defined elswhere), insread of a
plain string?

felix: need to decide whether internationalistation of names is an
issue or we just map to simple strings

<dsinger> it's intriguing to think that anything can be a value or a
URI

<dsinger> but what happens if I say "my name is" "URI to jpeg image"

<dsinger> ?

<pchampin> I was rather suggesting "the creator is (string|URI)"

david: uri issues brings us back to foaf

<pchampin> I'm not suggesting that we should embed the descrition of
that URI...

<dsinger> friend of a friend?

[30]http://www.foaf-project.org/

[30] http://www.foaf-project.org/

<dsinger> you mean? <[31]http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/>

[31] http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/%3E

<frank> A string is not less ambigious than a URI (I could write
name = sjdhfqflf

<pchampin> I would say a string is *much more* ambiguous

joakim: foaf is used in imdb

<pchampin> But we can not assume every person to have a URI with
appropriate FOAF properties

<dsinger> in terms of presentation, it's very clear; a URI
("gopher:" ?) is much less obviously presentable

<js> foaf is used by linked movie database

felix: string may be meaningful or not, additional uri (need to
ensure that uri points to suitable resource)

<rtous> also a problem with "address" field

XMP Basic schema

<fsasaki>
[32]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_s
chema

[32] http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_schema

felix: going through elements

XMP Rights Management schema

<fsasaki>
[33]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Rights_
Management_schema

[33]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Rights_Management_schema

dave: even simple copyright can become complex (eg composition of
media)
... simple copyright cannot be ignored

felix: does that require to include properties into ontology

dave: simple copyright, global to media

<frank> I thought we had decided in the last f2f meeting that we
simply go for one slot

joakim: dynamic temporal metadata support (for real time apps)

<dsinger> I am tempted to say that ALL metadata is temporal, but the
first version only allows you to ask "right now" what is...?

<dsinger> which covers a radio station where it varies by song...

XMP Media Management schema

<fsasaki>
[34]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Media_M
anagement_schema

[34]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Media_Management_schema

veronique: 3 levels: content - realisation -instance
... still to be decided whether 3 or 1 level

<dsinger> yes, use cases are essential: we'll never decide what we
want if we don't know what we want it to be useful for

<rtous> Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records (FRBR) :
[35]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRBR

[35] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRBR

ruben: different levels could simplify things (e.g. content
description such as title vs tech metadata like encoding)

+1 ruben

<cgi-irc> we can also check out how many models go for 3 levels and
how many go for 1

<cgi-irc> VRA has also 3 levels

<js> mpeg-7 has two

<pchampin> I'm still not sure there should be a *constant* level of
models...

<cgi-irc> two is good enough

<dsinger> what are the 3 levels? (sorry...)

content - realisation -instance

<dsinger> thx

<pchampin> what about the photo of a painting?

felix: volunteers for looking at how standards handle this issue?

<pchampin> or a movie making of?

<rtous> I can do that

<scribe> ACTION: ruben to survey how other standards handle the
issue of levels of description [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ruben

<scribe> ACTION: rtous to survey how other standards handle the
issue of levels of description [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action03]

<dsinger> well, basically "content: beethoiven's 5th; realisation:
berlin phil, 1962; instance: cassette tape from DG 1964"???

<tobiasbuerger> who do these three levels relate to the levels
defined in FRBR (work-expression-manifestion-item)? content:==work,
expression==realisation, manifestation==instance; item is not
existing?)

<js> you can also look at the music ontology who has adopted the
idea

<tobiasbuerger> yes, the music ontology adapted FRBR I guess

XMP Basic Job Ticket schema

<fsasaki>
[38]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_J
ob_Ticket_schemaa

[38]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_Job_Ticket_schemaa

XMP Paged-text schema

<fsasaki>
[39]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Paged-t
ext_schema

[39]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Paged-text_schema

<tobiasbuerger> I guess we do not need it in our current use cases

<tobiasbuerger> (I meant the basic job ticket information)

XMP Dynamic Media schema

<fsasaki>
[40]http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Dynamic
_Media_schema

[40]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Dynamic_Media_schema

joakim: many detailed technical aspects included

<fsasaki> xmpDM:logComment User’s log comments.

veronique: does this refer to tagging?

felix: little information in xmp spec

veronique: slot for tags needed - could this field by used?

all to look at xmp reviews, discussion continues next week

Draft for Use cases and requirements document

veronique: more ideas/comments about general structure should be
sent to list

<fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to write a mail about the general structure
of the use cases / req document [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - Write a mail about the general
structure of the use cases / req document [on Felix Sasaki - due
2008-11-18].

API/Ontology draft proposal

all to review and comment

felix: formal definition of ontology, complexity of api, etc

<dsinger> thx, bye!

<tobiasbuerger> bye

<rtous> bye

<js> bye

<frank> bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Felix to make a liaison with OMA [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to write a mail about the general structure of
the use cases / req document [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: rtous to survey how other standards handle the issue
of levels of description [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: ruben to survey how other standards handle the issue
of levels of description [recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]

[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________


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