RE: Collection of examples suggestion

Hi Jeremy,



Thanks for your contribution to the project. For sure we will consider the
way you are writing mathematics on the Web. Do we have permission to take a
few of your formulas for the purpose of the project?



You say “Document-wide macros, the root problem being retyping and
re-modifying many times”. I know that LaTeX is programmable with macros but
I’m not sure to what extend people do that on Web pages. How do you do that?



Dani



*From:* Jeremy Kun [mailto:kun.jeremy@gmail.com]
*Sent:* viernes, 29 de abril de 2016 17:40
*To:* Daniel Marques; Peter Krautzberger
*Cc:* Moritz Schubotz; public-mathonwebpages@w3.org
*Subject:* Re: Collection of examples suggestion



Another important example is probably Terry Tao's blog (
https://terrytao.wordpress.com/) and others who use the TeX2Wordpress
script you can find here:
https://lucatrevisan.wordpress.com/latex-to-wordpress/



In other words, many math writers who use wordpress write entirely in TeX
and convert via this program to HTML.



On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 8:37 AM Jeremy Kun <kun.jeremy@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,



I don't feel I have much to contribute to this group standard-wise, but I
have examples aplenty of how I display math on the web, and what kinds of
math I need to display on the web. I've been writing a math and computer
science blog for the last five years on Wordpress. Wordpress does something
quite weird: they accept a subset of TeX in their editor, and render each
to a static image. They do an acceptable but subpar job typesetting it, and
crucial features like equation aligning and matrix displays often break
with no traceable error. There's no support for commutative diagrams, and
when things break horribly I have to go and make my own images and upload
them by hand.



Here's my main page: https://jeremykun.com



And here's a post with lots of probability computations:
https://jeremykun.com/2013/10/28/optimism-in-the-face-of-uncertainty-the-ucb1-algorithm/

Here's one that has commutative diagrams:
https://jeremykun.com/2013/05/24/universal-properties/

Some big matrices used for algebraic topology:
https://jeremykun.com/2013/04/10/computing-homology/



I tend to write 1-2 articles a month, around 4k - 5k words each, and over
the years I've built up a sizeable and complicated dependency graph across
the posts on my blog. One of the biggest complaints of my readers is that
they can't seem to navigate it all, and programmatically extracting
semantic information from the posts would allow me to write a program that
helps them.



Some things that are very interesting and important to me as a writer:

   1. Semantic/type annotations, which don't interfere with the actual math
   writing
   2. Document-wide macros, the root problem being retyping and
   re-modifying many times
   3. Maintaining the TeX math mode style of writing. MathML is just
   awfully verbose
   4. Full support for whatever subset of TeX math mode is used on
   mathoverflow.com

As a side note, a close friend of mine (who is smart but not tech savvy) is
trying to launch a blog using Jekyll and Github and MathJax and all the
fancy tools. You can see how I probably would have done it if I were to
start a brand new blog today. Here's an example post:
http://samidavies.github.io/post/2016/04/01/Triangle-Removal_Lemma.html



Cheers!



On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:44 AM Daniel Marques <dani@wiris.com> wrote:

Well… the idea is that the source code (html) of the page is as important
as the final rendering and mixing different ways to do math in a single
page would make difficult to understands the example.



Regarding MathJax, I think that two different examples are valid. The first
one is an example with MathML on the page and the <script> tag. The other
one is the output (if I understand well that means the static HTML and
CSS). As another example, there is something like “accessibility support
such as volkers speech rule engine”. I do not know very much about it but
it is worth that somewhere it is explained because it might be of interest
for the CG.



At this stage, I don’t think we are ready to provide a solution but rather
collect the existing know-how of the members. That’s the reason I would
prefer as many ways to do math as possible.



My only concern is whether each example should follow a fixed template or
how they should be sort out.



Dani





*From:* Peter Krautzberger [mailto:peter.krautzberger@mathjax.org]
*Sent:* viernes, 29 de abril de 2016 11:16
*To:* Daniel Marques
*Cc:* Moritz Schubotz; public-mathonwebpages@w3.org


*Subject:* Re: Collection of examples suggestion



Dani,



Good idea! It will probably be relevant to have multiple representations
(different methods of creating HTML/CSS, SVG, PNGs etc). (Minor squibble:
MathJax does not fit into the list, I think, though its output does.)



I would propose to start on the wiki but I can't seem to be able to find it
:-(



I would like to propose to jump to GitHub right away, where we'd also have
a wiki.



If people don't object, @Ivan would you have the time to set up a repo for
us?



Best regards,

Peter.



On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Daniel Marques <dani@wiris.com> wrote:

HI Moritz,



I am not referring to an exhaustive list of the math that should be covered
but how math is put into Web pages. For example, using MathJax, using SVG,
using static HTML and CSS, using flexbox, etc. I would also like to see
examples with different ways to do accessibility (using alt or aria
attributes), etc.



Dani





*From:* Moritz Schubotz [mailto:schubotz@tu-berlin.de]
*Sent:* jueves, 28 de abril de 2016 16:19
*To:* Daniel Marques
*Cc:* public-mathonwebpages@w3.org
*Subject:* Re: Collection of examples suggestion



Hi,


As promised on the (at least my) last MathJax meeting I'm working on that.

Actually I'm working on that today.

Currently I have the following lists of input all TeX sources
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Math/CoverageTest
https://github.com/wikimedia/texvcjs/blob/master/test/en-wiki-formulae.json
https://github.com/physikerwelt/utf8tex

If you have more datasets I'm very interested.

In addition I collected MathML input from input for inclusion in mediawiki
https://github.com/konrad/JATS-to-Mediawiki/issues/11

Best

Moritz







On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Daniel Marques <dani@wiris.com> wrote:

Hi Everybody,



Great meeting and now we know each other better!



My suggestion is to collect examples of how formulas are currently put into
a Web page. Each example would be a single formula written in an html page
together with any additional resource it depends (css, images, js). We can
store the examples in the github repo we talked in a previous email. The
examples should be as rich as possible (accessibility, styling, …)
depending on the feature is wanted to express.



The idea behind the collection is that we understand better the different
solutions we are offering or we know from the members of the group. Later
on, when we try to write down the requirements, we will be able to point
into the examples.



Regards,



Dani






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Moritz Schubotz
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