Re: CSS Branding Meeting?

Hi Coralie,

Do we have the slides anywhere? I imagine these slides won’t make much sense to Tab without any visuals.

Cheers,
Lea

Lea Verou ✿ http://lea.verou.me ✿ @leaverou







> On Apr 8, 2015, at 02:13, Coralie Mercier <coralie@w3.org> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 02:18:08 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Since I was on vacation all last week, what happened with this?
> 
> Hi Tab, all,
> 
> There are minutes of the presentation and subsequent questions:
>  http://www.w3.org/2015/04/03-logo-minutes.html
> 
> ... available in text form at the bottom.
> 
> Coralie
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote:
>>> Hi, folks–
>>> 
>>> Thanks again to everyone who's interested. We have determined that
>>> tomorrow at 2pm ET / 11am PT works best.
>>> 
>>> Michael will be doing a screencast:
>>> http://join.me/ocupopscreen
>>> 
>>> I'll set up a phone bridge, and we can also meet in IRC. We'll keep
>>> notes and logs in the wiki [1].
>>> 
>>> Here are some logistics for attendees:
>>>  Conference code 26631 ("CONF1")
>>>    Phone:  +1.617.761.6200
>>>     VOIP:  sip:zakim@w3.org
>>>  Chat and logs:
>>>      Web:  http://irc.w3.org/?channels=logo
>>>      IRC:  irc://irc.w3.org:6665 in #logo
>>> 
>>> Agenda:
>>> * introductions / background (5-8 minutes)
>>> * Ocupop presentation (15-20 minutes)
>>> * Q&A (30-40 minutes)
>>> 
>>> Is there someone who would be willing to scribe this meeting?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Logos/CSS
>>> 
>>> Regards-
>>> -Doug
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/1/15 10:49 AM, Doug Schepers wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi, folks–
>>>> 
>>>> The meeting is now set for Friday at 2pm ET.
>>>> 
>>>> Note that this time is a change based on updates on the Doodle poll.
>>>> Lea, I note that you indicated you weren't available at this time, and I
>>>> hope you can attend anyway; your feedback would be useful.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll coordinate with Michael and send logistics for the meeting today or
>>>> tomorrow.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> –Doug
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/30/15 1:46 PM, Doug Schepers wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, folks–
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered the poll so far!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Because Michael Nieling is the uniquely required participant, and he's
>>>>> only available for 5 timeslots, I've modified the poll [1] to remove any
>>>>> timeslot he's not available on.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As of right now, 8 people have filled in their availability, and Friday
>>>>> at 3pm ET is the most popular slot (only 1 person can't make it then),
>>>>> followed by Friday at 2pm ET (2 people can't make it then). Thursday
>>>>> seems pretty unpopular, so I doubt that would work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the interest of moving this forward, I suggest that we try for Friday
>>>>> at 3pm ET.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll keep the poll open to see if a new trend emerges, but please block
>>>>> that time out on your calendars for now.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If possible, I'd like to have someone from each of the browser vendors
>>>>> and authoring tool vendors, since they showed the most interest in the
>>>>> HTML5 logo. If you're not able to make it on Friday, please see if
>>>>> someone else from your organization can do so; it doesn't necessarily
>>>>> have to be someone from the CSS WG; a marketing person or devrel person
>>>>> might also be a good fit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] http://doodle.com/x6btk5r5yxz39thp#table
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards–
>>>>> –Doug
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/29/15 10:41 PM, Doug Schepers wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi, CSS WG–
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Friday, I met with Michael Nieling from Ocupop, the design firm who
>>>>>> made the HTML5 logo. He showed me the preliminary design for a possible
>>>>>> logo, and I thought it was well done and effective.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We'd like to show it to the CSS WG now, to get your feedback. I'd like
>>>>>> to find a time this week that suits all interested parties. I propose
>>>>>> that we meet just after this week's CSS WG telcon, but in case that
>>>>>> doesn't work, please fill out this doodle poll [1].
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please keep in mind that we're trying to keep this a little hush-hush
>>>>>> for now, so we can surprise the community when the time is right.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [1] http://doodle.com/x6btk5r5yxz39thp#table
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> –Doug
> 
> Text snapshot of the minutes:
> 
> 
>                               - DRAFT -
> 
>                           CSS logo/branding
>                              03 Apr 2015
> 
>   See also: [2]IRC log
>      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/04/03-logo-irc
> 
> Attendees
>   Present
>          Doug_Schepers, plinss, MichaelN, alex_antennahouse,
>          koalie, [Apple], Lea, dsinger, renoirb
>   Regrets
>   Chair
>          Doug
>   Scribe
>          koalie
> 
> Contents
>     * [3]Topics
>         1. [4]Presentation
>         2. [5]Feedback
>     * [6]Summary of Action Items
>     __________________________________________________________
> 
>   <shepazu> [7]https://join.me/ocupopscreen
> 
>      [7] https://join.me/ocupopscreen
> 
>   <scribe> scribenick: koalie
> 
> Presentation
> 
>   Doug: We had some ideas, learned good and bad lessons from the
>   HTML5 logo
>   ... pretty successful
>   ... we didn't have the stakeholders at the start
>   ... that's a downside
>   ... so we wanted to get you involved early on
>   ... Assets around the release; webpage, how to use
>   ... we want to do that again this time
>   ... we had a gallery "send us how you use it" but that didn't
>   work so well
>   ... we'll make a little video
>   ... about what went into the process
>   ... a shorter version of the presentation you are about to see
>   ... in terms of timing of release:
>   ... I don't know if there is a CSS milestone, anything relevant
>   ... I invite you to suggest things
>   ... failing that, I'd like to reveal that at the W3C W3Conf in
>   July
>   ... it will be live-streamed
>   ... it would be great if said milestone could be met at this
>   time
> 
>   [Lea arrives]
> 
>   Doug: reminder:
>   ... we want a chance to refine this
>   ... and to present it to the world in one sweep of the hand
>   ... so please, keep this under embargo
>   ... Leaks would spoil the majesty of the thing
> 
>   [Michael proceeds with [8]https://join.me/ocupopscreen ]
> 
>      [8] https://join.me/ocupopscreen
> 
>   Michael: I'm going to enlist your help on strategy
>   ... how to make it accepted universally, and how to make it
>   evolve
>   ... we want the same enthusiasm around the HTML5 logo which
>   people could remix
>   ... I'm hear to propose solution
>   ... what best communicates CSS
>   ... Keywords about CSS
>   ... CSS == creativity, execution on the Web
>   ... It's evolving, it has improved, it's modular, etc.
>   ... it's a foundation on which powerful tools are being built
>   ... Moving from words to images...
>   ... in logo design we aim for instant reaction to it and
>   understanding of it
>   ... one way is to leverage concept words
>   ... We produced a hundred sketches
>   ... moving on to solutions
>   ... here are the ideas that didn't make the cut
>   ... We wanted to convey the reality of CSS
>   ... we played on promises of functionalities, the shape of CSS
>   code might be,
>   ... layers, modularity
>   ... we played with how to incorporate those
>   ... We wanted to highlight the sophistication of CSS
>   ... Also we wanted it to work well in colour and in
>   single-colour
>   ... Early on, we wanted something more stylish than the HTML5
>   logo
>   ... This is a C and S, it looks like an ampersand
>   ... but you don't see the meaning right away
>   ... other ideas on CSS monogram in the shape of cascading water
>   ... more shapes
>   ... But all those didn't convey the power, depth, duality of
>   styling of CSS
>   ... we played then with 6-edge shapes
>   ... and angular CSS monogram
>   ... We went from hard cross-roads to breaks in the line weight
>   ... to give a sense of how the lines are weaving into each
>   other
>   ... This is in one-colour
>   ... back to the hexagon shape
>   ... we came up with a cube in shades of blue
>   ... it fits well side by side with the HTML5 logo
>   ... Welcoming questions, focusing on what and why, less about
>   how
>   ... which is our job
> 
> Feedback
> 
>   Doug: Michael showed me an early version
>   ... We wanted to be able to leverage characteritics of CSS in
>   the logo itself, for example hover effect or drop shadow
> 
>   <dsinger> it would be cool to animate-assemble it, etc. too
> 
>   Doug: and have a way to simplify the complex shape in small
>   size
>   ... would that work?
> 
>   Michael: We wanted the build it with CSS
>   ... We wanted it animated
>   ... Doug can share a link
>   ... as far as sizing goes, this is why we wanted the unique
>   container
>   ... without the monogran, we have the cube; a box
>   ... it can play that role
> 
>   <dsinger> Am concerned about the number of lines, and that they
>   are a bit ‘spindly’. Also wonder why the right two segments and
>   bottom two are in different blues; it diminishes the ‘cube’
>   effect.
> 
>   <Zakim> dsinger, you wanted to talk about lines and blues
> 
>   dsinger++ for feeding the record with his comment
> 
>   Michael: We added a diamond shape (the bottom of the cube)
>   ... because we want the eye to see the monogram inside the cube
> 
>   <dsinger> ah, you want ambiguity between cube and gem. ok
> 
>   Michael: the cube is not visible at first
> 
>   Doug: How would you feel about showing the version that I saw?
> 
>   Michael: We could. We made adjustments to simplify things
>   ... lighter line weight and addition @@ in the S
>   ... we moved away from that to simplify further and make it
>   more iconic
> 
>   Lea: I really like how it looks
>   ... both cube and diamond
>   ... however it feels too frail
>   ... it doesn't have the boldness of the HTML5 logo
>   ... it feels a bit too complex for a logo
> 
>   <dsinger> +1 to Lea
> 
>   Lea: it might not contribute to a strong brand
> 
>   Michael: It has far less negative space than the HTML5 logo
>   ... it is not fragile since it is in a container
> 
>   <dsinger> would like to see it with the C heavier (and possibly
>   then the C only can stay in small sizes?)
> 
>   Michael: when presented next to HTML5 logo, there is a notion
>   of yin and yang
>   ... weight could be refined
>   ... point taken
>   ... as far as brand, I think people will love to draw it
>   ... geometric pattern
>   ... I've been sketching it a lot; it's fun to draw
>   ... so, point well taken; we can make it more powerful
>   ... but not straw too far away
> 
>   Lea: Making is a bit simpler would help
>   ... the first thought I have is: complex
> 
>   <dsinger> I think it’s a fine balance between ‘elegant’ and
>   ‘fragile’ or ‘spindly’.
> 
>   <dsinger> ‘Complex’ is not usually a compliment.
> 
>   Lea: CSS is complex, but I'm not sure it would be good if the
>   logo contributed to reinforcing the idea that CSS is complex
> 
>   Michael: It should not be intimidating
>   ... we should aim at communicating it better
> 
>   Lea: a small version would not be distinguishible
>   ... what's inside is the thing
>   ... hexagon has been done many times
> 
>   Michael: Drawing the HTML5 logo analogy, you can't own the
>   shape
>   ... the HTML5 logo was adopted because it was shared
>   ... There's a mark; the monogram, and the container
>   ... You will be able to leverage itself
>   ... the monogram itself doesn't need to be there at 16 px
> 
>   Doug: Both points well taken
>   ... In the inner cube of the previous version, at the small
>   icon size, you'd still be able to see the C inside
>   ... Maybe we can play with the idea of merging
> 
>   Michael: Yes
>   ... and that might address the issue Lea raised
>   ... and how to make it extensible as much as possible
> 
>   Doug: Is there anybody else who can give immediate impression
> 
>   Coralie: David and I both realised there was a cube when you
>   mentioned it; we had seen the diamond
>   ... I like it, this blew my mind and was representative of
>   duality
> 
>   Michael: Having adaptable shape allows modularity
> 
>   David: I wonder if we could make the C a little heavier
>   ... that would remain in a smaller version
>   ... on the cube/gem ambiguity, only one side has lighter colour
>   ... it looks like we're looking at the inside of the cube
>   ... could we try to @@?
> 
>   Michael: Yes
> 
>   <leaverou> can we have this pdf to look at later in case we
>   have more comments/suggestions later?
> 
>   Michael: And Doug, the cube within a cube, we had a C-letter
>   form
> 
>   <alex_antennahouse> I think the outer S feels "wobbly", but the
>   inner S is really good
> 
>   Doug: Comparing with older version, I like the spacing and the
>   letter forms
>   ... there is an arabic quality to them
> 
>   <dsinger> agree, I like the international nature of it. rather
>   calligraphic
> 
>   Doug: maze-like, crystalin, pathways but also ... arabic,
>   beautiful script. I like that refinement.
>   ... spindiness is thus decreased
> 
>   <dsinger> realizes he forgot to say anything +ve, there is a
>   lot to like here!!
> 
>   Michael: yes, we liked that it looked like it had been done
>   with a calligraphic pen
>   ... to the point of complexity, it has a number of twists and
>   turns,
>   ... they are repetitive
>   ... allow modularity
>   ... this is weighing in
>   ... I appreciate the useful feedback
> 
>   Doug: Can you show something next week?
> 
>   Michael: yes
> 
>   Doug: Can I distribute slides?
> 
>   Michael: yes with the caveat that I want to inform this process
>   with what we learned with the HTML5 logo
>   ... big splash as it arrived without warning contributing to
>   its success
> 
>   <dsinger> realizes it looks more like a Knot Garden than a Maze
>   <[9]https://www.pinterest.com/mgwv/knot-gardens/>
> 
>      [9] https://www.pinterest.com/mgwv/knot-gardens/
> 
>   Michael: caveat: let's not share with the community; it's not
>   as inclusive, which is why we here now, but please, let's keep
>   it close to the vest
> 
>   <dsinger> thinks we should find an arabic calligrapher to
>   comment on how they would write it
> 
>   Michael: especially as we're continuing to refine it.
> 
>   Doug: Michael/ocupop are doing this pro bono, by the way
>   ... I'd like for us to be comfortable. let's try to strike a
>   balance between how decisive we can be about this process
>   ... I'll be in touch with everybody about next steps
>   ... Any open questions?
> 
>   [nope]
> 
>   Doug: thanks everybody for showing up
>   ... we'll schedule another round, hoping more people join
> 
>   <dsinger> I already like it better than the HTML5 logo :-)
> 
>   Michael: We don't care if you like it. Ultimately, what we care
>   about is if it's effective.
>   ... I want people to be excited about
> 
>   [thanks all]
> 
>   Michael_Nieling, I like it a lot, well done
> 
> Summary of Action Items
> 
>   [End of minutes]
>     __________________________________________________________
> 
> 
>    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [10]scribe.perl version
>    1.140 ([11]CVS log)
>    $Date: 2015/04/03 20:00:31 $
> 
>     [10] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>     [11] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Coralie Mercier  -  W3C Marketing & Communications -  http://www.w3.org
> mailto:coralie@w3.org +336 4322 0001 http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/

Received on Wednesday, 8 April 2015 06:18:27 UTC