W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-lod@w3.org > December 2016

Re: SKOS Shuttle 2.2.6 available as RDF Composer

From: Fabio Ricci <fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 14:06:39 +0100
Message-Id: <946B7FC3-2612-4BFB-A32E-BF7200F7C77D@semweb.ch>
Cc: Martynas Jusevičius <martynas@graphity.org>, Neil McNaughton <neilmcn@oilit.com>, "semantic-web@w3.org" <semantic-web@w3.org>, "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
To: Pete Rivett <pete.rivett@adaptive.com>
Dear Pete

thank you very much for your valuable hint - SKOS Shuttle will have both :)

This discussion has shown, this seems to be a very interesting subject we have to go more in depth. 
We will propose the subject “Units of Measures” as one of the next hot subjects in our “Semantic Web Meetups” for Zürich, Milan, New York and Berlin.

A nice holiday time to you all!

Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse 
Fabio Ricci
semweb		
Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
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> On 21 Dec 2016, at 10:55, Pete Rivett <pete.rivett@adaptive.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Fabio,
> My point was that there are two distinct pints: US Pint and Imperial Pint (still used in the UK for example). As per the Wikipedia page, 1 Imperial Pint = 1.2009 US Pints, so there is quite a difference between them.
> The same goes for the other volumetric units: fluid ounce up to gallon – despite the same name there are different Imperial and US units.
> The problem with your proposal is that if someone uses http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint> no one will know which of the two is being referenced. With potentially disastrous consequences (such as being served too little beer).
> You really need both http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#ImperialPint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#ImperialPint> and http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#USPint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#USPint>.
> And the same for the other volumetric units.
>  
> Hope that’s clearer.
>  
> Pete
>  
>   <>
> From: Fabio Ricci [mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 11:50 PM
> To: Pete Rivett <pete.rivett@adaptive.com>
> Cc: Martynas Jusevičius <martynas@graphity.org>; Neil McNaughton <neilmcn@oilit.com>; semantic-web@w3.org; public-lod@w3.org
> Subject: Re: SKOS Shuttle 2.2.6 available as RDF Composer
>  
> Hi Pete (all)
>  
> thank you for all your hints as reaction to my realisation, which de facto now allows modelling in the physics field.
> I am very proud to offer a running system with already 58 units of measures - despite of QUDT results - with a lean RDF representation and in such a short amount of time.
>  
> Yes Indeed it seems (yet) to be a crowded field, with the units of measure. You are right, money currencies should be added. 
> As soon as commercial orders will reach Semweb I will be glad to add the remaining units to this flexible system.
>  
> Your specific proposal seems to have missed that on the Wikipedia page it’s derived from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units#Volume <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units#Volume> there are distinct units for Imperial volume and US volume (you can see the conversion factors) – so any reference to a unit needs to be very explicit which is being used – a test which your proposed http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint> does not achieve.
>  
> I cannot follow this your hint: 
> according to "http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure#pint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure#pint>” - here the extract from http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint> :
> <owl:Class rdf:about="http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure#pint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure#pint>"><rdfs:label xml:lang="en">Pint</rdfs:label><rdfs:comment xml:lang="en">Quantity: L3 (Volume) - defined as double value</rdfs:comment><rdfs:isDefinedBy rdf:resource="http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure>"/><swo:reliesUpon rdfs:resource="https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#double <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#double>"/><swo:usesType rdfs:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#double <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#double>"/><dct:issued>2016-12-xx</dct:issued></owl:Class>
>  
> There it is clear that #pint relies on xsd:double (http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#double <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#double>”)
> Please review accurately the types - they were all inserted taking care of their quantities.
>  
> RDF or not, a data type must be mapped to some (in this case) java type to preserve precision
> If “double" - which is currently one of the ***available*** most powerful floating point representation - should be not enough - fine enough - in 5 minutes - thanks to the flexible system - this base type can be substituted by a better type. Here I do not bother which type should be used. The best one is good enough - which one should it be ? Meanwhile I do think double is a good temporary solution.
>  
>  
> My best wishes for the coming holidays 
>  
> Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse 
> Fabio Ricci
>  
> semweb
> 
>  
>  
> Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
> Software systems · ICT coaching · ICT Projects leading
> https://semweb.ch <https://ch.semweb.ch/>	
> https://skosshuttle.ch <https://skosshuttle.ch/>	
> https://rdflink.ch <https://rdflink.ch/>	
> Weinmanngasse 26 
> CH-8700 Küsnacht ZH (Switzerland)
> Tel.
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> +39 (389) 0681334
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> 
>  
> On 21 Dec 2016, at 01:46, Pete Rivett <pete.rivett@adaptive.com <mailto:pete.rivett@adaptive.com>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Fabio,
> I don’t know if you’re aware but you’re joining a crowded field in attempting to units of measure.
> In addition to QUDT that Martynas referenced there is the following from the System Engineering community: Quantities Units Dimensions Values (QUDV) which has a prototype OWL version here http://www.omgwiki.org/OMGSysML/doku.php?id=sysml-qudv:qudv_owl <http://www.omgwiki.org/OMGSysML/doku.php?id=sysml-qudv:qudv_owl>  . This has a general ontology and a set of individuals for the SI units. And, importantly, the ability to represent different kinds of measure (e.g. mass, volume, temperature) and conversion factors between units.
> There are lots more if you Google ontology units of measure.
>  
> Your specific proposal seems to have missed that on the Wikipedia page it’s derived from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units#Volume <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units#Volume> there are distinct units for Imperial volume and US volume (you can see the conversion factors) – so any reference to a unit needs to be very explicit which is being used – a test which your proposed http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#pint> does not achieve.
>  
> If I understand the proposal correctly it is requiring all quantities to be expressed as floating point numbers (xs:double) – which seems questionable due to well-known accuracy issues https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html <https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html>
>  
> Units do not apply solely to physical measures. One important aspect also requiring units is money e.g. for cost information.
> There is already an ontology for this http://www.omg.org/spec/EDMC-FIBO/FND/20160201/Accounting/ISO4217-CurrencyCodes.rdf <http://www.omg.org/spec/EDMC-FIBO/FND/20160201/Accounting/ISO4217-CurrencyCodes.rdf> , based on the ISO 4217 standard.
>  
> Season’s Greetings,
> Pete
>  
>  
> Pete  Rivett (pete.rivett@adaptive.com <mailto:pete.rivett@adaptive.com>)
> CTO, Adaptive Inc
> 65 Enterprise, Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
> cell: +1 949 338 3794
> Follow me on Twitter @rivettp or http://twitter.com/rivettp <http://twitter.com/rivettp>
>  
> <image003.jpg> <http://smartdataweek.com/>
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Fabio Ricci [mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch <mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:17 PM
> To: Martynas Jusevičius <martynas@graphity.org <mailto:martynas@graphity.org>>
> Cc: Neil McNaughton <neilmcn@oilit.com <mailto:neilmcn@oilit.com>>; semantic-web@w3.org <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>; public-lod@w3.org <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: SKOS Shuttle 2.2.6 available as RDF Composer
>  
> Dear Neil, Martynas,  dear communities
>  
> (I do not find quads are the best idea to type an RDF value - although there were already some publicly financed projects proposing it).
>  
> Upon Neil’s kind remark and explanation, Semweb decided to finance the implementation of units of measure in SKOS Shuttle:
>  
> SKOS Shuttle allows by now the definition of RDF typed custom attributes choosing a type from 58 available units of measure which are (temporarily) defined in https://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf <https://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf> (small changes might be published here in the next days) and loaded in SKOS Shuttle, waiting for W3C to come up with.
>  
> The defined units of measure are the ones described in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units> and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units>. they are mapped to types in https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/ <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/> - please advice if some important units are still missing. Following Neil’s humorous hint and only upon regular commercial request further units e.g. from  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_humorous_units_of_measurement <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_humorous_units_of_measurement> will be added. 
>  
> RDF custom attribute are typed in SKOS Shuttle using the same combobox as for choosing a W3C type, like shown in https://skosshuttle.ch/gen/images/sksunits.png <https://skosshuttle.ch/gen/images/sksunits.png> (also subject to small changes in the next days).
>  
> Thus the modelled example https://skosshuttle.ch/gen/images/skspiston.png <https://skosshuttle.ch/gen/images/skspiston.png> shows now a “diameter" and a “height" in inches. 
> The type “Inch” is defined as swunits:inch i.e. http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#inch <http://semweb.ch/lod/2016/12/unitsofmeasure.rdf#inch>, and relies upon the W3C type https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#double <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#double>).
>  
> Ergo by now SKOS Shuttle allows you by now to start using RDF typed data and hence to model not only engineering but physics domains.
>  
> Thank you, Neil :)
>  
> Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse 
> Fabio Ricci
>  
> semweb
> 
>  
>  
> Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
> Software systems · ICT coaching · ICT Projects leading
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> https://skosshuttle.ch <https://skosshuttle.ch/>	
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> 
>  
> On 20 Dec 2016, at 10:59, Martynas Jusevičius <martynas@graphity.org <mailto:martynas@graphity.org>> wrote:
>  
> The measure and the unit do not have to fit into the same RDF value. You can use a blank node and then use QUDT to encode the unit:
>  
>   [ qudt:unit unit:IN ;
>     qudt:value 8.55 ]
>  
> http://qudt.org <http://qudt.org/>
> http://qudt.org/vocab/unit/IN <http://qudt.org/vocab/unit/IN>
>  
>  
> Martynas
> atomgraph.com <http://atomgraph.com/>
>  
>  
>  
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Fabio Ricci <fabio.ricci@semweb.ch <mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>> wrote:
> Dear Neil
>  
> thank you for writing, and it seems that I have put a finger on weak spot … regarding the units subject (sorry!), and thank you for the nice narration. 
> Nevertheless I need to point out, that the current lack of units in RDF is not an inherent problem of RDF, nor it does not require a quad (see below), but I see it as a temporary (maybe … political?) problem, because W3C seems to have decided until today *not* to provide units of measure for a value, as you promptly remarked here. From the representational point of view, this need would be solved by simply define the unit of measure into the value type expression like (hypothetically)
>  
> "8.55^^" <http://www.w3.org/2016/XMLSchema# <http://www.w3.org/2016/XMLSchema>inches> or even
> "8.55^^" <http://www.oilit.com/2016/XMLSchema# <http://www.oilit.com/2016/XMLSchema>inches>  
>  
> … having again the triple and not the quad. 
>  
> So, please let separate a still incomplete type / units standard definition from a tool which seems to offer a (currently) unique set of features around RDF.
>  
> Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse 
> Fabio Ricci
>  
>  
> semweb
> 
>  
>  
> Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
> Software systems · ICT coaching · ICT Projects leading
> https://semweb.ch <https://ch.semweb.ch/>	
> https://skosshuttle.ch <https://skosshuttle.ch/>	
> https://rdflink.ch <https://rdflink.ch/>	
> Weinmanngasse 26 
> CH-8700 Küsnacht ZH (Switzerland)
> Tel.
> +41 (076) 5281961 <tel:+41%2076%20528%2019%2061> 
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> 
>  
> On 20 Dec 2016, at 10:02, Neil McNaughton <neilmcn@oilit.com <mailto:neilmcn@oilit.com>> wrote:
>  
> Fabio,
>  
> That’s not so good for engineering style reasoning as in trying to see if a valve will fit into a particular place or use. This is a recurring problem with RDF triple modeling – there are not enough places in a triple to put all the information you need to qualify a dimension. A valve hasproperty height AND inunits centimeters. A quad already.
> Of course it can be done – but requires more mapping which AKAIK is done idiosyncratically with every author adopting his/her own approach.
> For some (amusing I hope) background to this issue see my March 2004 Oil IT Journal editorial A Million Miles of Spaghetti are Eaten Every Day <http://www.oilit.com/2journal/4php/4_rebuild_center_frameset.php?item=load_article&2dyear=04&2dmonth=03&artno=3http://www.oilit.com/2journal/4php/4_rebuild_center_frameset.php?item=load_article&2dyear=04&2dmonth=03&artno=3>.  
>  
> Best regards
> Neil McNaughton - @neilmcn <http://www.twitter.com/neilmcn>
> Editor and Publisher, Oil IT Journal
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>  
>  
>  
> From: Fabio Ricci [mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch <mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>] 
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 7:47 PM
> To: Neil McNaughton <neilmcn@oilit.com <mailto:neilmcn@oilit.com>>
> Cc: semantic-web@w3.org <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>; public-lod@w3.org <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: SKOS Shuttle 2.2.6 available as RDF Composer 
>  
> In case your question was: "How do I recognise what unit measure the attributes are” the answer is: 
> In the current release You have to name the attribute to have the measure directly in its name, for instance instead of “Diameter” you take “DiameterInches”.
>  
> Thank you for your question
>  
> Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse 
> Fabio Ricci
>  
> semweb
> 
>  
>  
> Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
> Software systems · ICT coaching · ICT Projects leading
> https://semweb.ch <https://ch.semweb.ch/>	
> https://skosshuttle.ch <https://skosshuttle.ch/>	
> https://rdflink.ch <https://rdflink.ch/>	
> Weinmanngasse 26 
> CH-8700 Küsnacht ZH (Switzerland)
> Tel.
> +41 (076) 5281961 <tel:+41%2076%20528%2019%2061> 
> +39 (389) 0681334 <tel:+39%20389%20068%201334>
> Skype:
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> 
> Confidentiality Warning: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the intended recipients, are confidential and maybe privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, conversion to hard copy, copying, circulation or other use of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return email, and delete this message and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
> 
>  
> On 19 Dec 2016, at 19:43, Fabio Ricci <fabio.ricci@semweb.ch <mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>> wrote:
>  
> Diameter and Height are psd:decimal value and is encoded using https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#decimal <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#decimal>
>  
> So the RDF value will be "8.55"^^<http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#decimal <http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#decimal>> 
>  
> Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse 
> Fabio Ricci
>  
>  
> semweb
> 
>  
>  
> Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
> Software systems · ICT coaching · ICT Projects leading
> https://semweb.ch <https://ch.semweb.ch/>	
> https://skosshuttle.ch <https://skosshuttle.ch/>	
> https://rdflink.ch <https://rdflink.ch/>	
> Weinmanngasse 26 
> CH-8700 Küsnacht ZH (Switzerland)
> Tel.
> +41 (076) 5281961 <tel:+41%2076%20528%2019%2061> 
> +39 (389) 0681334 <tel:+39%20389%20068%201334>
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> 
> Confidentiality Warning: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the intended recipients, are confidential and maybe privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, conversion to hard copy, copying, circulation or other use of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return email, and delete this message and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
> 
>  
> On 19 Dec 2016, at 19:01, Neil McNaughton <neilmcn@oilit.com <mailto:neilmcn@oilit.com>> wrote:
>  
> “Diameter 8.55” 8.55 what – feet, meters … how do you encode the units?
>  
> Best regards
> Neil McNaughton
> info@oilit.com <mailto:info@oilit.com>
> Editor and Publisher, Oil IT Journal
> Public website – www.oilit.com <http://www.oilit.com/>
> Cell - +336 7271 2642 <tel:+33%206%2072%2071%2026%2042>
>  
>  
>  
> From: Fabio Ricci [mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch <mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>] 
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 6:54 PM
> To: semantic-web@w3.org <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>; public-lod@w3.org <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>
> Subject: SKOS Shuttle 2.2.6 available as RDF Composer 
>  
> Dear Community
>  
> I am proud to announce here that SKOS Shuttle has reached per today a further degree of maturity. 
> With Release 2.2.6 SKOS Shuttle permits to create SKOS networks enhanced as follows:
>  
> 1) Integrating OWL classes at concept level (inherit all OWL class data properties)
> 2) Allowing creation of Custom attributes at concept level according to values in https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/ <https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/> 
> 3) Allowing (symmetrical) Custom Relations to link concepts (finally allowing special constructs like "part-of”)
> 4) Inserting SPARQL-UPDATE stuff (minor feature) in SPARQL tab
> 5) Editing coloured RDF statements in the appropriate tab.
>  
> De facto SKOS Shuttle has become per 2016 an RDF composer.
> See a (really) tiny example in https://skosshuttle.ch/gen/images/skspiston.png <https://skosshuttle.ch/gen/images/skspiston.png>
>  
> SKOS Shuttle is free to use (inside a fixed resource extent), educational institutes gets the “silver”Tarif for free.
>  
> Thank you all and have all a nice Christmas Time and a better New Year 2017!
>  
> Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse 
> Fabio Ricci
>  
> semweb
> 
>  
>  
> Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
> Software systems · ICT coaching · ICT Projects leading
> https://semweb.ch <https://ch.semweb.ch/>	
> https://skosshuttle.ch <https://skosshuttle.ch/>	
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> 
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> 
Received on Wednesday, 21 December 2016 13:07:19 UTC

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