Re: Final CFP: In-Use Track ISWC 2013

Hi Sebastian,

Yes, I agree completely! The Selector mechanism is meant to cover the cases
that can't be covered by URIs with fragments.  Having a URI that identifies
the segment (Open Annotation's SpecificResource), along with information or
a resource that describes the segment (Selector), to refer to externally in
HTML or other RDF is very important.

Rob



On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Sebastian Hellmann <
hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> wrote:

>  Hi  Robert,
> don't get me wrong: For most of the RDF cases Open Annotation is fine. I
> was talking here about non-RDF use cases, e.g. HTML.
> You gave one example yourself:
> <a href="http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/core.html#FragmentURIs"<http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/core.html#FragmentURIs>>AnchorText</a>
>
> or <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/house#English-abode"<http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/house#English-abode>>the
> meaning of house in the sense of abode</a>
>
> You can not put RDF into the "href" attribute and you would need extra
> infrastructure (a server + service for minting and resolving URIs) to send
> around a simple link.
>
> --Sebastian
>
>
> Am 03.05.2013 09:23, schrieb Robert Sanderson:
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>  Thank you for the comments on Open Annotation!
>
>  We agree, of course, that fragments are extremely important.  In Open
> Annotation we have a hybrid approach consisting of three parts:
>
>  * If the resource can be described solely using fragments, then we
> promote that.
>     http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/core.html#FragmentURIs
>
>  * However there are situations when we need more information than can be
> provided in a fragment, such as also adding the time of the representation
> or providing style information for the segment, then we introduce a
> FragmentSelector resource that provides the fragment syntax along with this
> additional information.
>     http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/specific.html#FragmentSelector
>
>  * And then there are the situations where the fragment syntax isn't
> sufficient or doesn't exist.  For example circles or arbitrary paths in
> spatial dimensions, arbitrary text in any textual resource, or selections
> in resources with media types that do not have fragment definitions at all.
>  In these cases we have to look elsewhere, and use additional Selector
> resources.
>     http://www.openannotation.org/spec/core/specific.html#Selectors
>
>  We would be very happy for additional engagement and discussion in this
> area as to best practices and recommendations.
>     http://www.w3.org/community/openannotation/
>
>
>  Rob Sanderson
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Dawson, Laura <Laura.Dawson@bowker.com>wrote:
>
>>  Short DOIs for fragment IDs?
>>
>>   From: Sebastian Hellmann <hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de>
>> Date: Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:33 PM
>> To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
>> Cc: Steve Pettifer <steve.pettifer@manchester.ac.uk>, Sarven Capadisli <
>> info@csarven.ca>, "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
>> Subject: Re: Final CFP: In-Use Track ISWC 2013
>> Resent-From: "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
>> Resent-Date: Thursday, May 2, 2013 4:34 PM
>>
>>   Open annotation is great. Really powerful and well designed ontology
>> and model. It doesn't replace fragment ids, however. Both are necessary:
>> frag ids to link with in simple use cases (e.g. HTML) and the other one
>> to annotate properly.
>> A bridge between them would be nice.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Sebastian
>>
>> Am 02.05.2013 18:00, schrieb Paul Groth:
>>
>> Hi Sebastien,
>>
>>  I use latex as well. Utopia is a pdf reader.
>>
>>  But utopia does support referencing bits of the pdf. As I understand,
>> they are moving to extending the open annotation ontology. I've cc'd Steve
>> Pettifer who created Utopia and who will known the ins-and-outs.
>>
>>  Currently, they store all the annotations separately.
>>
>>  Thanks
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Sebastian Hellmann <
>> hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi Paul,
>>> personally for me latex works best, because it has good editors and
>>> support for description logic formulas. Plus it is widely used and quite
>>> good for PDF typesetting.
>>>
>>> It would be really swell to be able to address content within PDF with
>>> identifiers. Did Utopia solve that problem?
>>>
>>> I am asking along the lines of
>>> - mediafragments [1]
>>> - RFC 5147 text fragment identifier (see the example at the bottom of
>>> [2])
>>> - xpointer/xpath [3]
>>>
>>> If yes, I would like to use it immediately. There are plans to convert
>>> the Google Mention corpus (which includes PDF's) to NIF [2] .
>>> The PDF Open Parameters provided by [4] are way too simple.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Sebastian
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/media-frags/
>>> [2] (example is at the bottom of .ttl file)
>>> http://persistence.uni-leipzig.org/nlp2rdf/ontologies/nif-core
>>> [3] e.g. http://example.com/exampledoc.html#xpath(/html/body
>>> [1]/h2[1]/span[1]/text()[1])
>>> [4]
>>> http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/acrobat/PDFOpenParameters.pdf#page=7
>>>
>>> Am 02.05.2013 12:55, schrieb Paul Groth:
>>>
>>> Hi Sarven,
>>>
>>>  Beyond the PDF for me is moving beyond the current research
>>> communication system as highlighted by the Force 11 manifesto (
>>> http://www.force11.org/white_paper). This includes adopting
>>> technologies that augment/extend (i.e. go beyond) existing technologies.
>>> For example, making data easily accessible and citable, providing links to
>>> online content, making multiple perspectives on content available, exposing
>>> provenance, using altmetrics. I'm very influenced by the work on Utopia (
>>> http://utopiadocs.com) so that's why I think using pdfs are fine - you
>>> can do a lot with them as they stand - and for a certain form of
>>> communication (written long form text) they work well. As technologist we
>>> need to make sure that these new technologies work well in the environment
>>> and connect to other things.
>>>
>>>  cheers
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Sarven Capadisli <info@csarven.ca>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/02/2013 12:23 PM, Paul Groth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think Harry makes the point better than I can.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Paul, I have one last question for you if you don't mind, because it
>>>> seems like you are not interested in playing this out and I don't want to
>>>> bother you further: what does "beyond the PDF" mean to you?
>>>>
>>>> -Sarven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> - Web & Media Group | Department of Computer Science
>>> - The Network Institute
>>> VU University Amsterdam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>> Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann
>>> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig
>>> Events: NLP & DBpedia 2013 (http://nlp-dbpedia2013.blogs.aksw.org,
>>> Deadline: *July 8th*)
>>> Venha para a Alemanha como PhD: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/csf
>>> Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://linguistics.okfn.org ,
>>> http://dbpedia.org/Wiktionary , http://dbpedia.org
>>> Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann
>>> Research Group: http://aksw.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
>> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
>> Assistant Professor
>> - Web & Media Group | Department of Computer Science
>> - The Network Institute
>> VU University Amsterdam
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann
>> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig
>> Events: NLP & DBpedia 2013 (http://nlp-dbpedia2013.blogs.aksw.org,
>> Deadline: *July 8th*)
>> Venha para a Alemanha como PhD: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/csf
>> Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://linguistics.okfn.org ,
>> http://dbpedia.org/Wiktionary , http://dbpedia.org
>> Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann
>> Research Group: http://aksw.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann
> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig
> Events: NLP & DBpedia 2013 (http://nlp-dbpedia2013.blogs.aksw.org,
> Deadline: *July 8th*)
> Venha para a Alemanha como PhD: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/csf
> Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://linguistics.okfn.org ,
> http://dbpedia.org/Wiktionary , http://dbpedia.org
> Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann
> Research Group: http://aksw.org
>