- From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:31:16 +0200
- To: Luca Matteis <lmatteis@gmail.com>
- Cc: David Wood <david@3roundstones.com>, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKaEYhLyNdsdPgujrpYuR0K3Eou40hc0yOfwdmMX09NikmXLXA@mail.gmail.com>
On 18 June 2013 00:21, Luca Matteis <lmatteis@gmail.com> wrote: > This still doesn't answer my initial question "How do you produce Linked > Data without RDF?". > At this point I'm going with other members of the community stating that > you're simply avoiding the evidence. The evidence shows that indeed you > need RDF to produce Linked Data. So RDF is strictly needed in order to > produce Linked Data. > An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician (it is said) were holidaying in Scotland. Glancing from a train window, they observed a black sheep in the middle of a field. "How interesting," observed the astronomer, "all scottish sheep are black!" To which the physicist responded, "No, no! Some Scottish sheep are black!" The mathematician gazed heavenward in supplication, and then intoned, "In Scotland there exists at least one field, containing at least one sheep, at least one side of which is black." > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Melvin Carvalho < > melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On 17 June 2013 23:26, David Wood <david@3roundstones.com> wrote: >> >>> Nicely done, Kingsley! That is an excellent exploration of the >>> boundaries. >>> >>> Yes, it is RDF (of course), but crappy RDF since the predicates are >>> hardly likely to be reused by others or even mapped via owl:sameAs. >>> >>> Yes, it is Linked Data, but crappy Linked Data because it doesn't link >>> out to anything. The bogus Content-Type is something we have (almost) all >>> learned to live with. >>> >>> Crappy != broken, but it is still crappy ;-) >>> >> >> +1 >> >> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Dave >>> -- >>> http://about.me/david_wood >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 17, 2013, at 14:17, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 6/17/13 1:35 PM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>> >>> It's number 3 because it's RDF (Turtle) and it's using URIs to describe >>> things. And links to other data. >>> >>> Let's put aside the Turtle assumption debate since it (like Media Type) >>> doesn't have any concrete bearing on this exercise. >>> >>> How about the document denoted by this URI/URL: >>> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl><http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test2.ttl> >>> >>> Is that an RDF document? If not, is it a Linked Data document? Or is it >>> neither? >>> >>> >>> Kingsley >>> >>> >>> Can you make your point more clearly rather than answering my question >>> with other questions? >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/17/13 1:09 PM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>>> >>>> What makes it RDF is that you can take the contents of this URL and >>>> stick it in any popular RDF parser and it will parse it for you. >>>> >>>> It's still bad quality Linked Data because it's missing mime-types. >>>> Anyway back to my initial question "How do you produce Linked Data >>>> without RDF?" >>>> >>>> >>>> To cleanup this experiment, here's a URI/URL that denotes a version of >>>> the file (note: there where some errors in the initial document e.g. "." >>>> where I meant to have ";") on my server: >>>> >>>> >>>> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl><http://kingsley.idehen.net/DAV/home/kidehen/Public/DropBox/Public/Linked%20Data%20Resources/linked-data-rdf-test.ttl>. >>>> >>>> You can also just copy and past the content to your document to yours. >>>> >>>> Back to the question and exercise, what's the defining characteristic >>>> that makes either of our documents (denoted by their respective URI/URLs) >>>> RDF documents, specifically? Here are some document type options to select >>>> from: >>>> >>>> 1. Structured Data >>>> 2. Structured Data adhering to Linked Data principles >>>> 3. RDF based Structured Data adhering to Linked Data principles. >>>> >>>> >>>> Note, I am not expecting Media Types to play any role in this >>>> experiment. >>>> >>>> Kingsley >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Kingsley Idehen < >>>> kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 6/17/13 12:51 PM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Done: http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt >>>>> >>>>> That's still RDF so I don't get your point. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Really? How? >>>>> >>>>> curl -I http://codepad.org/7REcSynR/raw.txt >>>>> >>>>> HTTP/1.1 200 OK >>>>> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 16:57:10 GMT >>>>> Server: Apache >>>>> Pragma: no-cache >>>>> Cache-Control: no-cache >>>>> Content-Disposition: attachment >>>>> Content-Length: 427 >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What makes it RDF? >>>>> >>>>> Related: >>>>> >>>>> 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model -- EAV >>>>> 2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. 1976 dissertation that >>>>> covers unified views of data (note: a simple example of these concepts that >>>>> even predate the World Wide Web). >>>>> >>>>> Kingsley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Kingsley Idehen < >>>>> kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 6/17/13 11:02 AM, Luca Matteis wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Kingsley Idehen < >>>>>> kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Linked Data is also something you can produce, without any knowledge >>>>>>> of RDF. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What do you mean "without any knowledge of RDF"? How do you produce >>>>>> Linked Data without RDF? Please give us an example before making statements >>>>>> on behalf of the community. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you recall (earlier today) I presented you with a simple >>>>>> exercise which would answer the question you've posed above, demonstrably. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's that I posted: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Webby Structured Data: >>>>>> >>>>>> Simply copy and paste the following to a Web accessible location >>>>>> (URL) and then share the URL via a response to this mail. If you can't then >>>>>> simply let me know and I'll do that for you. >>>>>> >>>>>> ## Structured Data Representation using Turtle Notation ## >>>>>> >>>>>> <> >>>>>> a <#Document> . >>>>>> <#mentions> "Linked Data" , "Linked Data", "Semantic Web", "Inference >>>>>> Reasoning", "Web". >>>>>> <#comment> "A mailing list post about Linked Data and RDF". >>>>>> <#seeAlso> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data><http://dbpedia.org/resource/Linked_data>, >>>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/RDF>, >>>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web><http://dbpedia.org/resource/Semantic_Web>, >>>>>> <http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web><http://dbpedia.org/resource/World_Wide_Web> >>>>>> >>>>>> ## End ## >>>>>> >>>>>> What is the above to you? >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Webby Structured Data -- constructable using basic knowledge of >>>>>> Entity Relationship Models e.g. EAV (Entity-Attribute-Value based >>>>>> structured data representation) >>>>>> 2. RDF based Structured Data -- i.e., structured data endowed with >>>>>> machine- and human-comprehensible entity relationship semantics as defined >>>>>> by RDF (a framework). >>>>>> >>>>>> Related: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity–attribute–value_model<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%96attribute%96value_model>-- EAV >>>>>> 2. http://bit.ly/YTdz3N - Peter Chen's circa. 1976 dissertation that >>>>>> covers unified views of data (note: a simple example of these concepts that >>>>>> even predate the World Wide Web). >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>>>> Founder & CEO >>>>>> OpenLink Software >>>>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com >>>>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen >>>>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>>>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>>> Founder & CEO >>>>> OpenLink Software >>>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com >>>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen >>>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>> Founder & CEO >>>> OpenLink Software >>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com >>>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen >>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Kingsley Idehen >>> Founder & CEO >>> OpenLink Software >>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com >>> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen >>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
Received on Monday, 17 June 2013 22:31:46 UTC