W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-lod@w3.org > February 2013

Re: Content negotiation for Turtle files

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:18:23 -0500
Message-ID: <51129E6F.5070500@openlinksw.com>
CC: public-lod@w3.org
On 2/6/13 1:08 PM, Colin wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Fascinating thread, all arguments being quite valid and it seems it 
> all depends on what you want to achieve with Linked data.
>
> I was about to write a lengthy text to explain my view, but I'll start 
> with a table to save time and improve readibility:
>
> *You are..*
>
> 	
>
> *Human*
>
> 	
>
> *Machine*
>
> *You want to…*
>
> *Write data*
>
> 	
>
> Turtle
>
> 	
>
> RDF/XML, JSon, Ntriples
>
> *Read data*
>
> 	
>
> HTML , /Turtle/
>
> 	
>
> RDF/XML, JSon, Turtle, Ntriples
>
>
> *Turtle*: like Kingsley pointed many times, it's easy write at hand. 
> Like Richard pointed, users should use a decent editor, with syntax 
> checking, possibilities to import objects, classes, properties etc.. 
> easily, maybe a preview feature that would show a graphical view of 
> the written graph.
>
> However, if reading Turtle is possible, I don't think it's what users 
> would like in the end. With a plain Turtle file you get the meaning, 
> but zero usability.


You get maximum usability via the most simple of patterns i.e., the 
following steps:

1. Create a file
2. Add Turtle content
3. Save the file
4. Share the file.

1-4 are vital. You don't need any syntax highlighters for that. For 
instance, do you need an kind of aid from any editor to express:

This is a Document.
This Document was created today.
It was created by me.
I am a Person.
etc..

Basically simple sentences that flow from your conventional intuition 
all the way over the digital realm of the Web.

The sad story here is that nature of Data has been compromised by the 
overbearing nature of software, in general.

The Web is a massive jigsaw puzzle game where every puzzle piece is a 
Web resource. Thus, we need to have a mechanism (one that superior to 
HTML) for rapidly producing and sharing data, information, and knowledge.

> With so much interlinked data you want to browse, not to get Turtle 
> files one by one by manually concatenating the . It's like comparing 
> the RFC text files (example 
> <http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5646.txt>) with the W3C 
> recommandation pages (example <http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery/>), full of 
> links, or something even more powerful, something like Graphity (my 
> company's data portal <http://data.nxp.com>).

No, that's not the case. Again, its about puzzle pieces. Each Web user 
contributes there little pieces to the bigger puzzle.
>
> I can't think of a situation where a machine would write Turtle.

Lost me on that one.

>
> *RDF/XML*: Not readable by humans. Since XML is quite common to store 
> data, the easiest way to product RDF from XML is to serialize RDF/XML. 
> As pointed earlier, it's so easy that some people produce millions of 
> rubbish triples. But don't blame the tool, crappy data was in MySQL 
> DBs, in XML, and will be in RDF too. Instead of banning or advising 
> against using it, it would be more productive to bring a light on the 
> pitfalls, the most common mistakes that a XML developer would make 
> when producing RDF.
>
> *JSON*: Not readable by humans. I'm not very familiar with Javascript 
> development. However I know enough to know that providing a JS 
> developer with JSon is a treat, certainly for reading, probably for 
> writing too.

Yes, and that's the issue, JSON is good for you, but the Web is for 
everyone (programmers and none programmers) :-)


Kingsley
>
> Best regards, and retro-thanks for all the previous threads!
>
> Colin Maudry
> @colinmaudry
> Product Data Analyst
> NXP Semiconductors
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Kingsley Idehen 
> <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 2/6/13 10:00 AM, Richard Light wrote:
>
>         One issue that Turtle will need to address (it may do so
>         already) is software support for free-hand data entry.  While
>         the format is seductively simple-looking (well, it is to the
>         likes of us who grew up on XML/SGML*) it is very easy to make
>         mistakes.
>
>         I followed Kingsley's reference to his file space (see his
>         separate reply) and grabbed the file jordan.ttl.
>
>
>     Now, you really have to put my directory listing example in
>     context. This isn't about perfect data (such doesn't exist) it is
>     all about the ability to create and share data. FWIW -- of all the
>     files to pick, you picked the one created by my 12 year old son :-)
>
>
>         It contains variations in spelling which will mean that some
>         predicate - subject links will fail (e.g. New England
>         Patriots), as will one sameAs link (USA).
>
>
>     Yes, he is a Pats fan, so I used that to pique his interest en
>     route to teaching him Turtle.
>
>
>         There is (I guess) an intended link from USA to N. America,
>         but again this won't fly because USA's continent property is
>         expressed as a string.  If case matters, most of the sameAs
>         references won't work.  The properties (predicates) are all
>         local to the document and none of them is defined.  Integer
>         values are typed as strings. Two of the dates are wrong (e.g.
>         Sept 31 783). This is not to criticise Kingsley's typing, but
>         rather to point out that if you are encouraging users to
>         hand-type resources which are to be interpreted as data, then
>         they are going to need some software support if they are not
>         going to be mightily let down by the whole process.  It's a
>         bit like authoring web pages: it doesn't go too badly if
>         you're working in a rich edit box and don't have to add HTML
>         markup yourself.
>
>
>     As I said, you somehow you stumbled across the Turtle doc produced
>     by a 12 year old. That file was all about getting him going and
>     then showing him the implications of his mistakes etc..
>
>     My other Turtle tutorials include sample links to profiles
>     documents, stuff I like etc.
>
>
>         Richard
>
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Kingsley Idehen
>     Founder & CEO
>     OpenLink Software
>     Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>     Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>     <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
>     Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
>     Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
>     LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







Received on Wednesday, 6 February 2013 18:18:46 UTC

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